To kill or not to kill (SFC)? What is right?

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voxspace
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To kill or not to kill (SFC)? What is right?

Post by voxspace » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:04 pm

Hi!

Just got a question that doesnt live my mind since the idea of creating heavily customized build.
I wanted to integrate: SP2+RVM202+InofficialPatches+LotsOfAddons+nLite the whole.

The question is: Will SFC react right as long as I do not cutout CABs and CATs?
Whats better:

1. Turn off SFC fully, remove CAT/CAB. Use trackers and ghost/diskimage to restore if something goes wrong. It gives trouble but gives ca 500MB+ freespace.

2. Turn SFC on, remove CAT/CAB. If sysfile replaced - insert custombuildCD. Will this function properly/at all???

3. Leave SFC on, CAT/CABs too. And enjoy 2GB+ OS size.

Whats your choice for heavy modified builds? Whats right?

On the last build with RVM201 and nlite, I got constantly messages from SFC: files were changed / lay the original CD.

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DisabledTrucker
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Post by DisabledTrucker » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:09 pm

I usually do choice 4 I turn off SFC and leave all the cat/cab's in. And I have no problems at all with it, well except for the occaisional typo's in my code, but other than that I usually have a rather stable system that way. Once you incorporate everything on the disk, which I always use DVD's now anyways, you don't have to worry about the O/S complaining about anything because even if it tries to replace the files, they aren't there to replace them with to begin with so there isn't any problems. Just be careful of what you expand when your building your next one though, as I rudely found out when I first got into this back when Ryan built his first beta pack...
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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:18 pm

I guess that depends on your view of Windows File Protection and how much you need the extra drive space. Generally speaking, the membership of this forum has views covering the entire spectrum. What it comes down to are your own personal preferences.

My own view: I like to keep as much functionality as possible without breaking anything in Windows. WFP may not be all that Microsoft claims, but every little bit of protection helps, in my opinion. Hard drives seem to be getting bigger, better and cheaper every few weeks, so what's the point of saving a few hundred megabytes?

If I really needed a minimalist OS installation (for a headless fileserver, for example), I'd use Linux.

voxspace
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Post by voxspace » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:23 pm

DisabledTrucker wrote:I usually do choice 4 I turn off SFC and leave all the cat/cab's in. And I have no problems at all with it, well except for the occaisional typo's in my code, but other than that I usually have a rather stable system that way...... even if it tries to replace the files, they aren't there to replace them with to begin with so there isn't any problems....
Well thats just the point, does SFC "understand" AT ALL what patches are right. And when they are REALLY replaced with wrong version.
Programmers view: Is there ANY method/need to control/modify SFC whitelist ?

Update: Sorry. I know what you mean now. Im kinda newbie in this area yet. The information IF the file is legal and its CRC is stored in CATs. So there is SP2 CAT for example @1,2MB.

Dllcache is SFC folder, so that if the file not legit (no/wrong CAT) it would be taken from there. If not, from original/modified CD.

Seems the best solution is Keep CAT.
Remove SFC - because some files are not CATed. Like uxtheme.dll
Remove DllCache.
Manually track changes with use of sigverif and ART tracer.

Thank you!
Last edited by voxspace on Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Acheron
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Post by Acheron » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:45 pm

I usually disable SFP. However I also keep the Catalog files so when running sigverif I can see if all system files are still fine.

voxspace
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Post by voxspace » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:14 pm

5eraph wrote:Hard drives seem to be getting bigger, better and cheaper every few weeks, so what's the point of saving a few hundred megabytes?
Well the problem is not in free space, my friend. I can remember my first HDD : 168MB. From that 60 MB freespace. All what i need. I can laugh now. Or I can laugh on my present situation in the future.

Anyway that doesnt change one thing what I try to achieve: Prevent AI-produced chaos. That means remove all that cannot "swim" in my way.

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:51 pm

voxspace wrote:...one thing what I try to achieve: Prevent AI-produced chaos. That means remove all that cannot "swim" in my way.
Good point. :)

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Post by cyberloner » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:59 am

is u leave the cat files...
doesn't it install more slower than without the cat files?

please guide guys...
last time i tested using cat files... installation took me 1 hour and without cat files installation took 20 minutes like that...

is it already fix about the cat files?

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Kelsenellenelvian
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Post by Kelsenellenelvian » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:27 am

The cat file issue was fixed last release. XP has BIG issue when there arte more than 150 cat files.

Setup will be the same now cat files or no cat files...

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DisabledTrucker
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Post by DisabledTrucker » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:29 am

I only turn off SFC long enough to install windows, once I have it installed, I restart SFC so that it will protect the files that are in there. This way I can install the patched files for uxtheme, tcpip, and trmserv and not have to worry about XP complaining they aren't the correct files when running the installer. Once they are installed, SFC is turned back on so that it can be protecting the rest of the files in the system. Which is why I need the cat files to be there and don't remove them. I've never had any problems doing it this way and I've never noticed any supposed slow downs when installing either. It does take install a little longer to do it, but that's because of all the stuff I am installing with my O/S, such as updated drivers and other programs, but in the long run it's a lot quicker because I don't have to worry about attempting to install them afterwards which takes twice as long usually.
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cyberloner
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Post by cyberloner » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:49 am

Thanks for fast reply... guys
understood... =)
so i can leave cat files now with SFC disable =)

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DisabledTrucker
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Post by DisabledTrucker » Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:56 pm

Okay, I have looked elsewhere for my answer and can't seem to find the post on this issue, but I've been using the SFC disable routine I mention in my first post on this thread like since I've been installing Windows using this method, has M$ changed anything recently with the way it looks for the cat files while installing? For the life of me, I can't get it to work anymore. I integrated SP2 on my "Gold" disk, then slipstreamed Ryan's pack (Nov 2006), then added in a few of the add_on's I've used for a while that have previously worked, including the one I created with all the "hacked files" in it, which also works just fine with previous versions of his packs, but for some reason this pack keeps giving me an error that several of the catalog files aren't found when it starts into gui-setup and locks up giving me the only option to click ok to see the error and reboots when I close the error only to come up again when it reboots. I have redone my disk several times now and can't get past this point, I thought the entire reason to use the SFC hack was to eliminate this problem, has M$ fixed the way this hack worked so it no longer works? Could it be a hardware problem?
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RickSteele
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Post by RickSteele » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:28 am

Try This; I just replace the sfc_os.dl_ in I386, then create my image, with the one downloaded from the link at the end of this reply. I've had problems with the addon also and this was/is the answer. I cab the downloaded file before slipstreaming it.

Disabling Windows File Protection Permanently.

I made an hacked SFC_OS.DLL for disabling WFP without any registry settings.

You can replace the file from your Windows XP SP2 source files or follow this guide if you have already installed XP.


1) Rename the hacked SFC_OS.DLL to SFC_OS.DLL.HACK

2) Unchecked "Hide protected operating system files" from "Folder Options"

3) Copy SFC_OS.DLL.HACK to "%WINDIR%\system32\dllcache"

4) Copy SFC_OS.DLL.HACK to "%WINDIR%\system32"

5) Start Task Manager, select Processes tab, right-click on explorer.exe and select End Process

6) On Task Manager menu, select File / New Task(Run...) and browse to "%WINDIR%\system32\dllcache"

7) Rename SFC_OS.DLL to SFC_OS.DLL.BAK and rename SFC_OS.DLL.HACK to SFC_OS.DLL

8) Browse to "%WINDIR%\system32"

9) Rename SFC_OS.DLL to SFC_OS.DLL.BAK and rename SFC_OS.DLL.HACK to SFC_OS.DLL

If windows appears select "Cancel" and on Task Manager menu, select Shutdown / Restart


That's it. For re-enabling I think it's obvious.



http://www3.sympatico.ca/lazimute/patches.htm

Hellrazor
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Post by Hellrazor » Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:54 am

I leave SFC on. I have a batch at the cmdlines.txt to copy the i386 folder to the windows dir, which is a measly 300 megs, and apply the appropraite registry entries to look for it there. As seraph said, with hard drives getting bigger and bigger whats 300 megs, plus with it mirror on the drive, all sfc replacements are silent, windows will never ask me for a cd. And ive never had an installation fail to startup or cause some retarded error due to some mismatched or missing files.

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Post by RickSteele » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:40 am

Hellrazor,

Very true, but, for me it is only necessary for install, afterwhich, I disable to be able to delete the empty folders it protects and to move some programs to another partition-ie: such as Movie Maker, which it also unnecessarily protects. This sfc_os.dll modification is fully reversable. Anyways, each to his own as they say.

"live long and prosper"

msdemich
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Post by msdemich » Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:56 am

DisabledTrucker wrote:I only turn off SFC long enough to install windows, once I have it installed, I restart SFC so that it will protect the files that are in there. This way I can install the patched files for uxtheme, tcpip, and trmserv and not have to worry about XP complaining they aren't the correct files when running the installer. Once they are installed, SFC is turned back on so that it can be protecting the rest of the files in the system. Which is why I need the cat files...
I've tried this method but I get a couple problems with it. First, I cant seem to get SFC to automatically turn on after I disable it in nlite. I've tried doing it through a registry key in commandlines.txt with no luck.

Secondly, once I enable WFP manually and run SFC /SCANNOW it asks for the CD but cannot find the files it needs there. I have to hit "cancel" several times before the SFC scan finishes. Basicly WFP is worthless in this state since it never find the right files.

Possible causes:
XPize
IE7 addon
BTS Driverpack
Or maybe something else I may be doing wrong?

Thanks.

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