[RESOLVED] Update pack causes blackscreen after splashscreen

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swampy
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Post by swampy » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:15 am

I've been reading this thread for ages, I don't install any symantec, and don't blackscreen. However, even though my XP is legit, I decided to immunise WGANotify so it can't phone home or anything else.
I'm just wondering if this could be a temp fix for you blackscreeners.

What I do to wgatray.exe and wgalogon.exe is open them with reshack & remove all resources except for version info (now they are both 3.5 kb). I don't do anything to LegitCheckControl.dll as I don't need to. Silent install doesn't complain, or Windows, and it doesn't show up as a critical update.

Just a thought.

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Post by Denney » Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:26 am

@swampy: I don't know if that'll work as the problem appears to be with the LegitCheckControl.dll file and not the wgatray.exe and wgalogon.exe files but I'll give it a shot once I'm done re-installing my comps later on tonight and see if that also fixes it. Doubt it though.

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Post by dpbarry » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:35 am

Hi Folks..

I've been awaiting an update to the pack to include the latest MS Updates and stumbled across this thread. I'm trying to get a handle on what is happening and it seems there are two schools of thought. Either it is Microsoft's WGA or Symantec.

On my test system, I have used Ryan Integrator 1.2.2 and Nlite 1.0RC7 and Bashrats Driver packs.

I've nlited my system for an unattened installed, integrated Ryans Updatepack 2.0.6 and dotnet packages and Bashrats Driver pack 606.

So far I have had no problems and even updated from the Microsoft Update Website.

I don't have Symantec installed. If I can be of any further assistance, I'll gladly help out as Ryans Integration packs are a godsend to me.

Declan

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Post by RyanVM » Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:15 pm

As far as I can tell, it's an interaction between WGA and another private hotfix included in my pack. SAV and Perfectdisk are able to trigger the problem, but they aren't the root cause.

Think of it the same way as coughing and a runny nose are symptoms of the flu. While they're a problem, there's a different underlying issue that must be resolved and treating the symptoms alone won't make it go away.
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Post by dumpydooby » Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:23 pm

So the problematic private hotfix would have to be in booogy's back as well, right (since you reproduced the problem using his pack)? However, I was under the impression he only uses critical updates in his pack. What about Xable's and Siginet's packs?

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Post by ENU_user » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:13 pm

i suspect this hotfix http://support.microsoft.com/kb/889673 (j/k) :P
but can very well b a hotfix of this nature with the following ""
A supported hotfix is now available from Microsoft, but it is only intended to correct the problem that is described in this article. Only apply it to systems that are experiencing this specific problem. This hotfix may receive additional testing. Therefore,...
Last edited by ENU_user on Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Siginet » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:32 pm

dumpydooby wrote:So the problematic private hotfix would have to be in booogy's back as well, right (since you reproduced the problem using his pack)? However, I was under the impression he only uses critical updates in his pack. What about Xable's and Siginet's packs?
I think it is still unknown if Booogy's pack actually causes the issue. Ryan stated that he wasn't able to reproduce the problem... and when the problem happened he rebooted and all was well.

I use Booogy's pack constantly and have never had an issue.

As for my pack... it is not an updatepack whatsoeve... it was just an addonpack to add updates to an existing updatepack. But I haven't updated my addonpack in quite some time. So by now it's obsolete. ;)

I haven't heard of any issues with Xables either.

Ryan is gonna be rebuilding the updatepack soon... and he is getting rid of a lot of the private hotfixes this time. We can allways create addon updatepacks for the private hotfixes.
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Post by RyanVM » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:43 pm

I'm pretty sure my experience with boooggy's pack was a false alarm. Again I apologize for the unnecessary confusion.
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Post by Vid0 » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:37 am

XP SP2 + RyanVM 2.0.6 + WMP10 Addon Version 2.5 (RyanVM) + Bâshrat DriverPack 6.03

RunOnceEx:
Microsoft .NET Framework 2.0 (RyanVM)
Sun Java 2 Runtime 1.5.06 Lite
K-Lite Mega Codec Pack 1.53
Acrobat Reader 7.0.8 Lite
CCleaner 1.30.310
Daemon Tools 3.47
Symantec AntiVirus CE 10.1.0.400

= Black Screen of Death (BSoD) :(

Rebooted into Safe Mode. Renamed/deleted "Program Files\Symantec AntiVirus". Rebooted = NO BSoD
Manually reinstalled Symantec AntiVirus CE 10.1.0.394 = NO BSoD.
Same on 2 PCs: laptop and desktop.
Strange.

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Post by boooggy » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:55 am

BSOD means blue screen of death.......

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Post by irtimaled » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:35 pm

Siginet, IMHO an update pack compiled to Ryan's standard (which seem extraordinarily high) with only the critical hotfixes would be a good route to isolating this pesky problem. I do however think that additional packages for non-critical & "private" hotfixes would be useful too, in fact having the private hotfixes are a "requirement" for me as I only originally started using Ryan's pack for KB888111. To be fair I've luckily not suffered from the Black SoD so my interest in this topic is in the development of a more stable update solution.

Ryan, will your v2.1 pack be split into a critical hotfix pack, a selection of optional hotfix & component packs, and finally the "private" hotfixes in their own packs?

Irti

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Post by Siginet » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:36 pm

I think Ryan is leaning towards having mainly only public hotfixes and a select few of the private ones. But a much less amount of the private ones then what are allready implemented. ;)

As for the Private addons... I'm not sure if Ryan is gonna perform the task at creating the addon packs for private hotfixes... due to it being a lot more work for him. But... I am sure people (maybe even myself) will help in creating the Private Hotfix addons for our fans.

Personally I haven't got much use for the private hotfixes because they aren't needed for any of my customers systems. So creating addons with private hotfixes wouldn't be the first thing on my schedual.
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Post by RyanVM » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:48 pm

There's no way I'll be making addons for private fixes. Xable's archive is out there, so anybody has access to them now.
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Post by mr_smartepants » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:57 pm

So call me ignorant... :P
Off topic...
But what are the main differences between Ryan's, Booogy's, and Xable's update packs?
From what I've gathered, Ryan's pack is pretty much all-encompassing and includes everything.
Booogy's pack includes everything 'official' on the WU/MU site (minus WGA).
Xable's is a 'lite' version of Booogy's in that it only includes 'official' critical updates (plus extras, minus WGA) and scorns the private hotfixes.

Am I close?

/Off topic
Last edited by mr_smartepants on Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by RyanVM » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:58 pm

I think you hit the nail on the head
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Post by ENU_user » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:05 pm

is it posibble to split this pack in to parts ? (so later it can b one again)
just to run it with tests once again i think its better practice
instead of taking the whole weight of recreating a new one
and its pretty much creating new ones anyway :P

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Post by Xable » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:30 pm

RyanVM wrote:Xable's archive is out there, so anybody has access to them now.
Everyone has always had access to them.

mr_smartepants, Actually your not quite right with regards to mine and boooggy`s pack`s. There`s been much confusion whith exactly what each pack`s purpose is so i`ll try to make it more clear for everyone in a thread later.

ENU_user, Knowing what`s actually involved in making update packs, I`d say from ryans standpoint it would be easyer in several ways to start fresh. Rather than try to hack up the current pack especially considering the amount of fix`s involved.

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Post by corpseslayer » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:01 pm

This may be a partial solution. RyanVM(A)- Critical. RyanVM(b)-Optional, RyanVM(C)-Custom.... In this case it may be easier for you to break it apart and then rework it. And in the end hopefully create a whole thats worth more than its' parts

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Post by Xable » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:25 pm

Xable wrote:There`s been much confusion whith exactly what each pack`s purpose is so i`ll try to make it more clear for everyone in a thread later.
Done

corpseslayer, That would be like making 4 update pack`s starting from scratch each time. I can`t see ryan going for that but don`t take my word for it wait for the man to speak for himself ;)

BTW, I`ve tried reproducing this blank screen with ryan`s and my pack with no luck unfortunatly..

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Post by RyanVM » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:38 pm

Actually, it's not going to take nearly as much effort to change things this time as it did to make 2.0 when I basically started over from the ground up. I've already catalogued all the fixes in the pack so I can efficiently remove them.

And as Xable (and I) have said, I will only be making and maintaining one pack. If people want other fixes, there's plenty of info out there for how to make addons and all of the fixes are available at Xable's share.
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Post by corpseslayer » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:57 pm

Hehehehe. I understand that one pack makes it simpler. and the only benefit of multiple packs would be in relation to solving issues like the one that on going just now. Multiple packs would never be a perminent solution and I agree in the sense that they would be more troublesome and only really serve as a 'band aid' :(

Still. Its suggestions that make the world go round :)

I'm personally too inept to try and make my own pack, hell I can't even get a 2 stage snapshot MSI to work!

That and I have the bittorrent tracker thinkg to work on,, for thoes who remember LOL.
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Post by TJHart85 » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:41 am

corpseslayer wrote: and the only benefit of multiple packs would be in relation to solving issues like the one that on going just now. Multiple packs would never be a perminent solution and I agree in the sense that they would be more troublesome and only really serve as a 'band aid' :(.
we've actually had multiple packs before. A lite, medium and full RVM Update pack. Completely ate up the bandwith and caused Ryan a lot of work to maintain as well as support.
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Post by orcoxp » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:04 am

Vid0 wrote:XP SP2 + RyanVM 2.0.6 + WMP10 Addon Version 2.5 (RyanVM) + Bâshrat DriverPack 6.03

RunOnceEx:
Microsoft .NET Framework 2.0 (RyanVM)
Sun Java 2 Runtime 1.5.06 Lite
K-Lite Mega Codec Pack 1.53
Acrobat Reader 7.0.8 Lite
CCleaner 1.30.310
Daemon Tools 3.47
Symantec AntiVirus CE 10.1.0.400

= Black Screen of Death (BSoD) :(

Rebooted into Safe Mode. Renamed/deleted "Program Files\Symantec AntiVirus". Rebooted = NO BSoD
Manually reinstalled Symantec AntiVirus CE 10.1.0.394 = NO BSoD.
Same on 2 PCs: laptop and desktop.
Strange.
Are you all integrating these SAV updates prior to install?

Personally I use an Administrative share of 10.1.0.394 that I've patched with the 10.1.0.401 update...and I extract the zip file from the Rapid Release defs and replace the original.

for 10.0.2 I was installing an updated Live Update immediately after but there apparently isn't an update for that yet.
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Post by orcoxp » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:04 am

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Post by mr_smartepants » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:04 am

orcoxp wrote: Personally I use an Administrative share of 10.1.0.394 that I've patched with the 10.1.0.401 update...and I extract the zip file from the Rapid Release defs and replace the original.
I did the same thing but my source was 10.1.0.396 prior to me updating the admin share to .401. Still blackscreened though.

I'm building a new ISO using Booogy's update pack and I'll install it in a few days. I'm having too much fun playing with M$ Vista. :lol:
Should I try blackscreening my Vista install? :P

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Post by irtimaled » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:29 am

Ryan, Any idea which (if any) private hotfixes you will continue to support in 2.1? If KB888111 is not included has anyone got any idea where to start with making an addon pack for this. Like how do you know which files to replace, what hive bits to tweak, etc.

I've only really used Ryan's pack and am quite happy with it so am really not interested in switching to another pack.

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Post by RyanVM » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:27 am

KB888111 will most definitely remain in 2.1. The basic criteria for private fixes will be ones that directly and completely supersede a public hotfix and ones which are high-demand and/or are specifically requested by users.
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Post by Fragbert » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:58 am

If this is the time to plead for individual private hotfixes to remain, I hope KB883667 stays in. This fixes the dual monitor/intel chipset issue where a plug and play monitor popup interrupts an unattended install.

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Post by mr_smartepants » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:18 am

Just in case anybody missed the latest news....We're not the only ones wrestling with WGA issues.
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Post by RyanVM » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:45 am

Fragbert wrote:If this is the time to plead for individual private hotfixes to remain, I hope KB883667 stays in. This fixes the dual monitor/intel chipset issue where a plug and play monitor popup interrupts an unattended install.
Yes, I need that one as well for my laptop.
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Post by reverie » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:44 am

Hi guys,

I recently encountered this problem, and since I am not sure if you've found a fix for it yet, I'll post the information I've found in the hopes that it will be of use. I use nLite to integrate RyanVM update pack version 2.0.6. The only other addons I include are Irfanview, TweakUI, RogueSpear Addons Essentials, and Klite Mega Codec Pack. At first boot I install the following: Microsoft Office 2003 (and updates), Wordperfect Office 12 (and updates), Spybot, Spywareblaster, Firefox, Groupwise, PDFCreator, and Symantec Corporate Edition v. 10.1.0.394.

I've used the same CD to install Windows on probably at least 20 machines in the past month or so, and have only encountered this problem one time. As someone suggested previously in the thread, I booted into safe mode and uninstalled Symantec, and then it booted just fine. I reinstalled it, rebooted, and it worked fine. I updated the definitions, rebooted, and it worked fine. However... When I added a new user account, the problem came back. As I was on a time schedule (obviously I use this CD for work since I've had to format like 20 machines), I really just needed to get the computer working, so I formatted just using my regular SP2 disc. Sorry I couldn't mess around a bit more to get some more information. If it had been my computer, I would've.

Anyway, I hope that helps you out a bit, Ryan. I'm not sure if I put all the information that you need on here, but if you need anything else, but sure to ask and I'll try to answer. Good luck fixing the problem, and thanks for all your hard work!

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Post by coukou » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:07 pm

Hello,

I was out for 2 weeks (since June 12), i think lost info.... too much to read and follow!

Do anyone can make a summary of what going on?
Finally, Is there any solution?

Regards
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The Neverending Story...

Post by sos149sign » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:35 pm

First, I wanted to send thanks to Ryan, Siginet, Roguespear, and the countless others who contribute to this site. They work non-stop to make life easier for all of us, while 99% of us sit back and just enjoy the fruits of their labors.

As for this black screen, I have never had this problem.

I've been watching this forum for months, and using Ryan's pack for about a year now. Most of the time I use only Ryan's Update pack, Addon Pack, and WMP10 pack. I've never had the black screen problem in any VMWare, VirtualPC, laptop or desktop variation. I install 15-30 pieces of software per test install, often including Norton Internet Security 2005. I do every single optional and critical Windows Update available.

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Post by RogueSpear » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:40 pm

@coukou, this is probably the most to the point "in-a-nutshell" explanation of what's been determined:
RyanVM wrote:As far as I can tell, it's an interaction between WGA and another private hotfix included in my pack. SAV and Perfectdisk are able to trigger the problem, but they aren't the root cause.

Think of it the same way as coughing and a runny nose are symptoms of the flu. While they're a problem, there's a different underlying issue that must be resolved and treating the symptoms alone won't make it go away.

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Post by RyanVM » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:51 pm

Alanoll's looking into it now too now that he can finally reproduce it
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Post by RyanVM » Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:43 am

Guys, it looks like we've got the problem licked once and for all. I've got my beta testers hitting on a new build as hard as they can, and they like me haven't been able to get it to blackscreen. If things stay this way, I'll let you know in this thread what finally fixed it and release 2.0.7 tomorrow :)
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Post by mr_smartepants » Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:59 am

RyanVM wrote:Guys, it looks like we've got the problem licked once and for all.
Yee HAW!! :D

You guys are awesome!

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Post by Hatefulsorrow » Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:06 pm

RyanVM: What turned out to be the real cause? I am woundering how to avoid and fix such errors in the future.

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Post by coukou » Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:58 am

@ RogueSpear: many TNX for updating my info

@RyanVM: very impatient to know the issue.

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coukou

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Post by RyanVM » Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:06 pm

Alanoll found that disabling rdpclip.exe made the blackscreens reproducibly go away, so I looked at what RDP-related fixes were included, and there were two. One was a security update which updated rdpwd.sys and the other was a private fix which updated rdpdr.sys. So I've removed that fix (KB898713) and it seems to have been successful in killing the blackscreens.

I would, however, appreciate feedback from all of those who've seen this in the past to verify it being gone in 2.0.7. If it can't be reproduced, I'm looking forward to locking this thread as RESOLVED :mrgreen:
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Post by orcoxp » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:23 pm

What were the updated file versions and their date stamps?
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Post by RyanVM » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:25 pm

The file was rdpdr.sys. That and the rest of the info is available in the KB article for it.
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Post by voc » Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:13 am

Thanks for all your hard work! Unfortunatly for me, I am still getting the problem with the 2.0.7 update pack. I am using your integrator (used to use nLite, but started to use RVMIntegrator for this pack). Also, I think Symantec Anti-Virus definitly helps cause the problem... because when I jump back into Safe Mode and perform a System Restore to the point before SAV is installed it works just fine.

Here's the funny thing. I'm supposed to be setting up two images... one on a HP Compaq nc8430 (laptop) and on a HP Compaq dc5100 (desktop). I configured the nc8430 two times... one with update pack 2.0.7 and another update from your March release. I must've rebooted the nc8430 over 50 times now (both of them) and neither experienced the black screen. (Both images are identical, and for the sake of this example, yes SAV is installed on both.)

It didn't matter which update pack for the dc5100 I used (software installed on this one is the same on the nc8430... including SAV), I still kept getting the black screen. I also confirmed it twice that when I System Restore before the SAV install, it boots fine.

For kicks I went ahead and slipstreamed a straight XP SP2 CD with no update packs along side with 2.0.7. On the vanilla XP SP2 install, I ran Microsoft Update so that both machines are up to date on patches. From that point I installed software at the same pace on both machines.

It wasn't until I installed SAV and a few reboots later that the 2.0.7 dc5100 machine gave me the black screen. It might just be me and my string of bad luck :(

Anyway, I'm going to keep testing 2.0.7 on that machine. I find it odd that the nc8430 (even pre-2.0.7 pack) is working just fine. I'll keep you guys posted if I find anything new. And if there aren't a new reports on the black screen, go ahead and disregard this post because probably I'm just doing something wrong.

Thanks for all your guys hard work!

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Post by MrNxDmX » Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:26 am

can you please share with us, how u install sav? i want to reproduce this black screens too, how do you make a silent install?

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Post by voc » Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:36 am

I didn't do silent installs on my image. The SAV I'm using is 10.1.394. This is build from the SAV 10.1 CD. For some reason I can't patch it to .401, but I can patch it to .396. Whether I used .394 or .396 didn't matter, I still received the black screen. (Don't know if .394, .396, or .401 patches matter with this issue.)

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Post by RyanVM » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:02 pm

voc, RogueSpear came across another situation where the blackscreen hit. 2.0.7a will hopefully fix it.
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voc
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Post by voc » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:37 pm

Wheww... so it's not just me :)

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Post by Molignar » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:43 pm

I got it to blackscreen aswell, curiously enough though, I turned off the welcome screen and went back to classic logons and no more black screens or lag. I did however install windowblinds right before things started actiing up again so I'll reformat and try it without windowblinds this time.

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Post by RyanVM » Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:09 pm

OK, the 2.0.7a update is available in the first post of the Update Pack 2.0.7 thread. Try it out and see if that fixes the black screens for you.
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Post by Molignar » Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:15 am

Okay, so I've reformatted using update pack 2.0.7a and WMP10 2.6. After installing Symantec Client Security 3.1.0.394, I still get a 15-20 second lag when loading into windows. After I update SCS to 3.1.0.401, I get to the welcome screen, it lags for a couple minutes, then goes into windows and blackscreens for a couple more minutes. In 2.0.7 I never got any lag until I updated. Also in both 2.0.7 and 2.0.7a if I turned off the welcome screen and used the classic logon instead all lag disappeared.

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