SP3 and IE7

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roirraWedorehT
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Post by roirraWedorehT » Sun May 04, 2008 11:26 pm

jbob wrote:Could you clarify please? Did you slipstream or install IE7 during/after install? You didn't mention installing IE7 so it's doubtful an update to IE7 would show up if it's not even installed. Just curious!
Yep, sorry; forgot about that part. :D I slipstreamed IE7 using Microsoft's original redistributable installer in nLite. i.e. I didn't install any IE7 updates since it's unclear as to whether SP3's IE updates, which are quoted as being for both IE6 and IE7, apply to IE7 that's integrated or installed after SP3, or only apply to IE7 that's installed before SP3 is installed (not slipstreamed).

I figured worst that would happen is that eventually some IE7 updates would show up on MU.

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jbob
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Post by jbob » Sun May 04, 2008 11:37 pm

Ok that makes more sense! :-) I'll look at it here again myself tomorrow. I've been playing with Nlite here for the first time. Oddly enough on my first attempt to slipstream WMP11 using Booogey's solution my first install attempt went all the way through without one single error. This was a full blown integration using the 1.5.3 integrator using all the Addon's I typically use and integrating IE7 as well. I just use Nlite to tweak the installation. I did copy the two problematic .mof files to the root of the CD ISO I made.

After the install I don't remember noticing any IE updates on MU but some things could have changed in the last few days. I'll just reinstall again.

What I have been doing is using the latest Autopatcher to update things but even it is not showing any IE7 updates although I seem to think there might have been a new one added in the last few days now that I think about it.

jamesdean
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Post by jamesdean » Mon May 05, 2008 10:37 pm

IEBlog : IE and Windows XP Service Pack 3

In the comments, Jane [MSFT] responded to Bruno:

"we don't support slipstreaming IE7 into Windows XP SP3 image."

That isnt encouraging :cry:

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roirraWedorehT
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Post by roirraWedorehT » Mon May 05, 2008 10:54 pm

Actually, I doubt if they supported slipstreaming it into Windows XP SP2 image either.

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jbob
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Post by jbob » Mon May 05, 2008 11:07 pm

Kinda my thoughts as well. After reading the article it seems to be more about the uninstalls than anything. I think if one slipstreams IE7 why would they ever wish to revert back to IE6?

I think some of those statements by MS people are not that well thought out.

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project51
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Post by project51 » Tue May 06, 2008 1:36 am

[quote="roirraW "edor""]Actually, I doubt if they supported slipstreaming it into Windows XP SP2 image either.[/quote]
Don't doubt it. They never did and never will. Their blog is useless. RyanVM forum is the best MS customer service :!:

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crashfly
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Post by crashfly » Tue May 06, 2008 8:11 am

project51 wrote:Don't doubt it. They never did and never will. Their blog is useless. RyanVM forum is the best MS customer service :!:
That is only because most of us know what we are doing. :twisted:
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galileo
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Post by galileo » Tue May 06, 2008 8:52 am

@Crashfly

LOL....speak for yourself......LOL :tard:

...me, I have no clue...... :P

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Post by crashfly » Tue May 06, 2008 1:52 pm

galileo wrote:@Crashfly

LOL....speak for yourself......LOL :tard:

...me, I have no clue...... :P
Well, if that is the case ... then you are pretty good at "not knowing what you are doing." ;)
A mind is like a parachute, it only functions when it is open.
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galileo
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Post by galileo » Tue May 06, 2008 3:02 pm

...LOVL... :P

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Post by marzsyndrome » Tue May 06, 2008 5:39 pm

You know guys, all this talk of "SP3 doesn't like this and that" isn't helping me to convince myself that SP3 is the way to go so far, lmao.

Think I'll sit it out with SP2 until we can be sure all the bugs and incompatibility problems have been sorted out!

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Post by JoeMenges » Thu May 08, 2008 2:01 pm

Microsoft seems to have updated the IE7 download page:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... 1805b2f90b

Any idea if this is a new version for SP3 or did they simply add text references to SP3 on the download page?

I'm kind of new to this integration stuff so I'm wondering what's the preferred option for WMP11 and IE7 integration?

Gold > SP2 > IE7+WMP11 > SP3
or
Gold > SP3 > IE7+WMP11

Thanks

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Post by 5eraph » Thu May 08, 2008 2:32 pm

armond has answered your first question, JoeMenges.
armond wrote:Hi, MrNxDmX and others,
The new IE 7 installer is the same of the previous one. MS only changed the posted date to May 5. The Digital Signature date is still Tuesday August 14, 2007. :(
As to your second question: Service Packs should always be slipstreamed before any Update Pack or addon. No exceptions.
  • Gold > SP3 > IE7+WMP11

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Post by JoeMenges » Thu May 08, 2008 2:53 pm

5eraph wrote:armond has answered your first question, JoeMenges.
armond wrote:Hi, MrNxDmX and others,
The new IE 7 installer is the same of the previous one. MS only changed the posted date to May 5. The Digital Signature date is still Tuesday August 14, 2007. :(
As to your second question: Service Packs should always be slipstreamed before any Update Pack or addon. No exceptions.
  • Gold > SP3 > IE7+WMP11
Thanks very much for your quick reply.

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Post by roirraWedorehT » Thu May 08, 2008 4:50 pm

His wife told me that's not the only thing he's quick at!

(ducking) Just kidding, 5eraph! :wink:

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Thu May 08, 2008 5:02 pm

LOL. You're lucky I'm divorced. :P

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project51
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Post by project51 » Fri May 09, 2008 5:13 am

Windows Update is seriously f**ck up. I didn't not install any addons. Just WinXP SP3.

Then I install IE7 Manually. Only two critical updates are displayed:

1. Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool - April 2008 (KB890830)
2. Cumulative Security Update for Internet Explorer 7 for Windows XP (KB947864)

But then, the KB947864 refuses to install. I did manual install, it still refuses :x

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roirraWedorehT
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Post by roirraWedorehT » Fri May 09, 2008 6:10 am

Yeah the same thing happened to me using MU a few days back, although in my case I had integrated IE7 using Microsoft's original installer and no hotfixes for it.

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dumpydooby
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Post by dumpydooby » Fri May 09, 2008 9:39 am

project51 wrote:Windows Update is seriously f**ck up. I didn't not install any addons. Just WinXP SP3.

Then I install IE7 Manually. Only two critical updates are displayed:

1. Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool - April 2008 (KB890830)
2. Cumulative Security Update for Internet Explorer 7 for Windows XP (KB947864)

But then, the KB947864 refuses to install. I did manual install, it still refuses :x
Did you slipstream SP3 yourself, or did you use an ISO provided by Microsoft?

If you slipstreamed yourself, was it from a gold source, or was it from a source that already had SP2 slipstreamed? That is, was it WinXP Gold -> SP3, or WinXP Gold -> SP2 -> SP3?

Also, what flavor of XP? (Curious to know Retail/VL or Pro/Home, etcetera)

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roirraWedorehT
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Post by roirraWedorehT » Sun May 11, 2008 3:08 pm

BTW, someone in another forum (I forget which) said that he reinstalled IE7 using the standalone installer and that after that, KB947864 didn't show up as a needed update.

I tried it just now and confirm what he said.

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Post by PsiMoon314 » Tue May 13, 2008 4:49 am

Hi,

I have tried this same test myself, installing SP3, then IE7 post install from the standard MS IE7 installer.

All of my testing is done on Windows XP Home OEM, as this is what most users have installed on their PC's ;)

KB947864 (fresh download direct from MS) does install on SP3 and is listed in Add/Remove Programs. QFECHECK also reports it as correctly installed.

I suspect that SP3 only contains the IE6 versions of the files so installing this hotfix post IE7 install appears to be required.

I need to check to see what other hotfixes might be IE or WMP version specific and see if they need reinstalling once you upgrade your IE or WMP to a later version.

Kind Regards

Simon

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Post by Chrysalis » Sat May 17, 2008 6:39 pm

5eraph wrote:armond has answered your first question, JoeMenges.
armond wrote:Hi, MrNxDmX and others,
The new IE 7 installer is the same of the previous one. MS only changed the posted date to May 5. The Digital Signature date is still Tuesday August 14, 2007. :(
As to your second question: Service Packs should always be slipstreamed before any Update Pack or addon. No exceptions.
  • Gold > SP3 > IE7+WMP11
Instead of saying no exceptions can you explain how that makes sense?

SP3 has security fixes for IE7, if you install IE7 after SP3 it then downgrades the files but the patches don't appear on microsoft update site.

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roirraWedorehT
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Post by roirraWedorehT » Sat May 17, 2008 6:49 pm

Chrysalis wrote:
5eraph wrote:armond has answered your first question, JoeMenges.
armond wrote:Hi, MrNxDmX and others,
The new IE 7 installer is the same of the previous one. MS only changed the posted date to May 5. The Digital Signature date is still Tuesday August 14, 2007. :(
As to your second question: Service Packs should always be slipstreamed before any Update Pack or addon. No exceptions.
  • Gold > SP3 > IE7+WMP11
Instead of saying no exceptions can you explain how that makes sense?

SP3 has security fixes for IE7, if you install IE7 after SP3 it then downgrades the files but the patches don't appear on microsoft update site.
If you install SP3 after IE7, it gets downgraded to IE6 and Microsoft has said themselves that standard procedure should be to uninstall IE7 first, upgrade to SP3 and then reinstall IE7. Unless you don't care that if you don't do that you won't be able to uninstall IE7 after reinstalling IE7, then you can just upgrade to SP3 (and it will downgrade you to IE6 SP3 version) and then reinstall IE7.

And yes, one update does appear now.

Service Packs should always be applied before anything else. Always has been that way.

Edit: I dismembered wrong I was thinking installing SP3 after IE7 downgraded it to IE6. I don't know why I was thinking that; I knew better. I have an excuse, I'm sick! :D
Last edited by roirraWedorehT on Sun May 18, 2008 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Chrysalis » Sat May 17, 2008 6:51 pm

ok and what about the KB947864 issue? is it a bug or is it actually patched?

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Post by roirraWedorehT » Sat May 17, 2008 7:06 pm

Chrysalis wrote:ok and what about the KB947864 issue? is it a bug or is it actually patched?
Are you referring to the issue if IE7 is integrated and then you try to install KB947864 manually or through WU/MU/AU? The solution is to reinstall IE7 and then apply the hotfix. Or integrate them both, although I can't guarantee that other updates won't have the same problem, so perhaps now I'd recommend not integrating IE7 until/if MS happens to do something that clears this issue up.

It's not really Microsoft's issue since they don't support integrating IE7, so I would just install IE7 manually after XP is installed until this is cleared up.

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Post by Chrysalis » Sat May 17, 2008 7:10 pm

Both I have read that the update doesnt show in WU in both scenarios when it is integrated and when it is installed manually.

As I understand it the guy who installed IE7 manually still had to download the standalone patch and install it manually it didn't show on WU.

I also read that blog, I agree with some posters there that MS have shot themselves in the foot by not including IE7 in SP3 as after all it is considered a security update and it would have been a good way to reduce the IE6 footprint. I can only guess that some companies with large licenses asked MS to not include IE7 due to them been slow to adapt their systems to it.

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Post by roirraWedorehT » Sat May 17, 2008 7:16 pm

Chrysalis wrote:Both I have read that the update doesnt show in WU in both scenarios when it is integrated and when it is installed manually.

As I understand it the guy who installed IE7 manually still had to download the standalone patch and install it manually it didn't show on WU.

I also read that blog, I agree with some posters there that MS have shot themselves in the foot by not including IE7 in SP3 as after all it is considered a security update and it would have been a good way to reduce the IE6 footprint. I can only guess that some companies with large licenses asked MS to not include IE7 due to them been slow to adapt their systems to it.
Well, I had integrated IE7 and had to do exactly what I described. First, it did show up on WU/MU/AU all three but it wouldn't install successfully. After research, I reinstalled IE7 and then the WU/MU/AU worked just fine. I didn't have to use the standalone of the hotfix. Had to use the IE7 standalone, of course, as that's the only way to reinstall it if it's already installed.

I'm still glad that IE7 isn't included in SP3 as there are some installations that I don't want them in.

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Post by Chrysalis » Sat May 17, 2008 7:29 pm

ok if its fine on standalone its not that a big issue then, annoying but I can accept it I thought the problem was worse.

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Post by roirraWedorehT » Sat May 17, 2008 7:39 pm

I'm sure it'll all be fixed by the time the next Windows comes around. :wink:

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Post by TechnoHunter » Sun May 18, 2008 3:42 am

rofl

dont be too sure of that... after all, they DID make -shudder- windows ME...


i think screwing up is part of their marketing plan.. endless job security doncha know ;)

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Post by roirraWedorehT » Sun May 18, 2008 5:39 am

:D

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Post by bphlpt » Sun May 18, 2008 1:02 pm

Ran into the following link over at blackviper's forum

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/0 ... xpsp3.aspx

It's a blog written by the Deployment Program Manager for IE8 at MS. MS is not supporting slipstreaming IE7 on XPSP3. Also, IE7 can not be uninstalled after XP3 is installed. XP3 has to be installed first, then IE7 if you ever want to take out IE7.

I'm guessing that these things effect the problem we're having installing the KB947864 on our slipstreamed images. Down in the comments this link is also referred to explaining that you can't do a repair install on a XP system with IE7 installed.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/917964

I understand that there are many companies that still use IE6 and don't want to move to IE7, but it certainly seems that IE6 is tied deeper into XP than I thought it was. Gives credence to all the conspiracy buffs, doesn't it?

Well, though we now know that things will work fine if we just run the standalone installer of IE7 on the slipstreamed SP3, it would be nice if we could figure out how to come up with a way to create an install disc with everything on it that will silently install and have everything working with no problems on first boot. I can always dream.

Cheers and regards.

Edit: I just noticed that jamesdean referenced this exact same blog back on May 5 above in this very same topic. Very sorry I didn't give him credit for already pointing this out to us. Just shows I sometimes try to read way too many forums way too late at night and sometimes get them all jumbled up and forget where/if I've already read something or commented on it. Sorry again.
Last edited by bphlpt on Sun May 18, 2008 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by roirraWedorehT » Sun May 18, 2008 1:47 pm

Thanks for the blog link. Interesting stuff. FYI, Microsoft didn't support integrating IE7 under SP2 either. I corrected my post seven posts up. I don't know why I was thinking installing SP3 downgraded IE7 to IE6!

Man, that makes sense (sarcasm) about repair installs. What if you can't get into your installation (rhetorical question)!?
TechnoHunter wrote:rofl

dont be too sure of that... after all, they DID make -shudder- windows ME...


i think screwing up is part of their marketing plan.. endless job security doncha know ;)
I tried to make Windows ME work several times on new installations. I've had more fun drilling holes in my head with a 1/2 inch (approx. 1 cm for you Europeans and Engineers :) ) concrete bit and a hammer drill.

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Post by runningfool87 » Sun May 18, 2008 8:07 pm

my thoughts:

as of today, there are two hotfixes for IE7, KB938127 (updates vgx.dll) and KB947864 (cumulative update for everything else). why not just extract the contents of these 2 hotfixes and compare the versions of all the files to the ones in a non-IE7 SP3 install? someone can report back on this info, and all the IE7 addon makers could adjust their packs accordingly.

personally i like my method...integrate SP3 via nLite, slipstream WMP11, integrate IE7 via nLite, finish disk, install XP, overwrite IE7 with IE8 beta 1. probably not a viable solution for a corporate environment, but for end-users its a pretty simple temporary fix.

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Post by roirraWedorehT » Sun May 18, 2008 8:13 pm

What's your thoughts on IE8 beta 1? I haven't tried it yet...

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Post by bphlpt » Sun May 18, 2008 10:52 pm

I just noticed that jamesdean referenced this exact same blog http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/0 ... xpsp3.aspx back on May 5 above in this very same topic. His link was called "IEBlog : IE and Windows XP Service Pack 3". Very sorry I didn't give him credit for already pointing this out to us. Just shows I sometimes try to read way too many forums way too late at night and sometimes get them all jumbled up and forget where/if I've already read something or commented on it. Sorry again.

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Post by Chrysalis » Mon May 19, 2008 1:06 am

I just tested my first sp3 cd in virtual pc.

KB947864 shows up after manual install of IE7 and works.

No such KB938127 tho.

Qfecheck showing this now, I am showing up to date in windows update.

Windows XP Hotfix Validation Report for \\HOME-C50466D515
Report Date: 5/19/2008 5:58am

Current Service Pack Level: Service Pack 3

Hotfixes Identified:
ie7: Current on system.
KB941569: Current on system.
KB947864-IE7: Current on system.
Q282784: Current on system.

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Post by roirraWedorehT » Mon May 19, 2008 2:40 am

Chrysalis wrote:No such KB938127 tho.
Yeah, I see that KB938127 was last updated 8/22/2007 and doesn't (yet) mention anything about applying to XP SP3.

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Post by x-force » Mon May 19, 2008 8:04 am

Chrysalis wrote:I just tested my first sp3 cd in virtual pc.

KB947864 shows up after manual install of IE7 and works.

No such KB938127 tho.

Qfecheck showing this now, I am showing up to date in windows update.

Windows XP Hotfix Validation Report for \\HOME-C50466D515
Report Date: 5/19/2008 5:58am

Current Service Pack Level: Service Pack 3

Hotfixes Identified:
ie7: Current on system.
KB941569: Current on system.
KB947864-IE7: Current on system.
Q282784: Current on system.
Please write here your iexplore.exe version. 947864 include 7.0.6000.20772 versions of all files, but never install new files.

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Post by SelfMan » Mon May 19, 2008 9:13 pm

Chrysalis wrote:I just tested my first sp3 cd in virtual pc.

KB947864 shows up after manual install of IE7 and works.

No such KB938127 tho.
The KB947864 is alreany in SP3 included...
I've tested my compilation... and files are the same as on my workstation.
Automatic Updates shows only KB923789 (Flash update) and KB890830 (MRT)
The VGX.dll (7.0.6000.20628) from KB938127 is also updated in the SP3.
That's probably the reason why no updates are displayed on WU/MU.

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Post by roirraWedorehT » Mon May 19, 2008 9:57 pm

SelfMan wrote:
Chrysalis wrote:I just tested my first sp3 cd in virtual pc.

KB947864 shows up after manual install of IE7 and works.

No such KB938127 tho.
The KB947864 is alreany in SP3 included...
I've tested my compilation... and files are the same as on my workstation.
Automatic Updates shows only KB923789 (Flash update) and KB890830 (MRT)
The VGX.dll (7.0.6000.20628) from KB938127 is also updated in the SP3.
That's probably the reason why no updates are displayed on WU/MU.
If you install IE7 after a fresh XP with slipstreamed SP3 installation, then WU/MU/AU shows KB947864. It may be included for IE6, or also for IE7 if IE7 is already installed when you update to SP3, but not for fresh slipstreamed XP installs.

I haven't seen KB923789 for SP3 through WU/MU/AU.

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Post by Chrysalis » Mon May 19, 2008 11:48 pm

agree with roirraW "edor" its obvious the hotfix isnt included in sp3 else why would it show up? The more likely scenario is that those integrating IE7 is causing a breakage and that breakage means they going without the hotfix, could be why ms are saying its not supported as they know about the problem.
Please write here your iexplore.exe version. 947864 include 7.0.6000.20772 versions of all files, but never install new files.
7.0.6000.16640, interesting so this seems to have raised a new problem.

same 7.0.6000.16640 on this host system which still runs SP2.

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Post by roirraWedorehT » Tue May 20, 2008 5:09 am

Chrysalis wrote:agree with roirraW "edor" its obvious the hotfix isnt included in sp3 else why would it show up? The more likely scenario is that those integrating IE7 is causing a breakage and that breakage means they going without the hotfix, could be why ms are saying its not supported as they know about the problem.
It also shows up if you don't integrate IE7 but install it after XP. SP3 can't apply a hotfix to something which is installed after it.

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Post by SelfMan » Tue May 20, 2008 1:55 pm

[quote="roirraW "edor""]
SelfMan wrote:
Chrysalis wrote:I just tested my first sp3 cd in virtual pc.

KB947864 shows up after manual install of IE7 and works.

No such KB938127 tho.
The KB947864 is alreany in SP3 included...
I've tested my compilation... and files are the same as on my workstation.
Automatic Updates shows only KB923789 (Flash update) and KB890830 (MRT)
The VGX.dll (7.0.6000.20628) from KB938127 is also updated in the SP3.
That's probably the reason why no updates are displayed on WU/MU.
If you install IE7 after a fresh XP with slipstreamed SP3 installation, then WU/MU/AU shows KB947864. It may be included for IE6, or also for IE7 if IE7 is already installed when you update to SP3, but not for fresh slipstreamed XP installs.

I haven't seen KB923789 for SP3 through WU/MU/AU.[/quote]
I've integrated OnePiece_IE7AddOn_2.1.0_ENU.7z using nLite 1.4.5 and so far the files mentioned are identical to my workstation - WinXP SP2 OEM + all the MU stuff + IE7 + WMP11 + SP3.
It doesn't look like I would be missing something...
The slipstremed CD contains only WinXP SP2 + manual SP3 integration (/integrate:) + nLite (OnePiece_IE7AddOn_2.1.0_ENU.7z + some drivers (LAN/SATA/WiFi)) + WMP11 and WMP updates integrated with Boogy's slipstreamer. So far so good and no problems in VM.

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