Afraid to use RVM Update Pack with nLite because of BLOAT

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Znive
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Afraid to use RVM Update Pack with nLite because of BLOAT

Post by Znive » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Hello,

I'd just like to thank Ryan for all his hard work on this pack.

I am having some issues, though :(

I have nice 130MB nLite disk I've been using that's just awesome.
There's no junk in it. It feels flawless.

After integrating the RyanVM update pack, my ISO goes from 130MB to 142MB. And my computer feels "tainted"

For example, I remove Windows Update support in nLite...
but after booting up the new XP with RyanVM, I've got some horrible stuff like a new "windows update" EXE/dll's and link to it in my start menu.

And there's a bunch of other weird stuff like that in there.

It stresses me out cause I feel like I'd have to totally take apart Ryan's whole pack and check on every single KB just to make sure I don't get any of the junk.

Is there any better solution?

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redxii
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Post by redxii » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:49 pm

Probably because it is re-adding files that were removed, and then some. You'd have to keep editing his update pack, or create your own to control what files are added.

But really, don't get so stressed out over it. I don't use nLite at all, there's 0 difference in performance, and compatibility is retained so I don't have to worry about some program not working and having to redo everything.
Last edited by redxii on Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kelsenellenelvian
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Post by Kelsenellenelvian » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:50 pm

Yup there sure is.

DL each hotfix separately and add them in with nLite by hand. Of course your disk will grow much larger in size, but hey you'll get what you want.

You do know though that adding in a update pack like this AFTER nLite-ing is actually asking for trouble? Update pack, addons THEN nLite is how you should go.

ccl0
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Post by ccl0 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:53 pm

a. if you stress out over 12mb then thats pretty silly

b. you did things backwards. use rvm first then nlite last.

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:54 pm

Ryan doesn't support the use of nLite; he doesn't check to see if nLite cleanly removes what he has added with his update pack.

Znive
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Post by Znive » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:02 pm

To EVERYONE except 5eraph who replied, you are all wrong.

I followed Ryan's instructions exactly.
I added the RyanVM pack into nLite hotfixes section.

@redxi,

Wrong.

It's not re-adding anything.

FIRST it applies the hotfixes
SECOND nLite removes all the components

@Kelsenellenelvian,

Wrong.

I didn't do that.
I specifically did not apply RyanVM to a post nLited disk as you mention.

@ccl0

Wrong.

I didn't say I did that.

@5eraph

RIGHT.

5eraph understands.

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redxii
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Post by redxii » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:18 pm

The update pack adds stuff that doesn't come with XP, so nLite wouldn't know of their existence. For example, KB922120, which adds a new driver (LLTD). Windows Installer 4.5 adds 38 MUI files, about 3.16MB. Flash 10 also adds to the size, 1.6MB compressed. You can look @ entries.ini under [dosnet_files] for files that aren't already in XP SP3.

Naturally, the files from hotfixes grow in size because more code is added.

Znive
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Post by Znive » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:27 pm

If I try to customize my RyanVM inf, in order to remove stuff... Do I need to delete some \ASMS\ and \svcpack\*.cat's ?

First I have to figure out how to remove this windows update crap.

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Kelsenellenelvian
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Post by Kelsenellenelvian » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:27 pm

Frack you then there is no need to be rude.

I was just trying to help...

ccl0
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Post by ccl0 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:32 pm

Znive wrote:To EVERYONE except 5eraph who replied, you are all wrong.
point A still is valid.

ps. you are making such a wonderful first impression here

Znive
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Post by Znive » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:48 am

ccl0, it's not so much the point A in itself... it's that...

I had a perfect disk, now I don't.

Having "Windows Update" stuff in the start menu means the disk is ruined.

Means it's unreliable, means people might click it and screw up their windows install, etc.

I spent a lot of time making sure that the XP is flawless, after using RyanVM it's no longer like that, so I can't just overlook the 12MB.

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:59 am

To prevent the creation of the Microsoft Update link in the Start menu, delete line 21 (shown in red below) in RVMUpPck.inf:

Code: Select all

[RVMUpdatePack]
OptionDesc	="Post-SP3 Updates"
Tip		="RyanVM's Windows XP Post-SP3 Update Pack"
Modes		=0,1,2,3
RegisterDlls	=Flash.Register,KB932716.Register,MU.Register
[color=#FF4040]ProfileItems	=MU.Shortcut[/color]

ccl0
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Post by ccl0 » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:07 am

Znive wrote: Means it's unreliable, means people might click it and screw up their windows install, etc.
their?

who are you doing this for?

the nLite license agreement permits personal use only

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Post by newsposter » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:26 am

Jeez, talk about a wasted thread.......

If you don't like it, don't use it.

If you don't understand it, don't use it.

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Kelsenellenelvian
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Post by Kelsenellenelvian » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:49 am

OMG its a damn warez monkey?

Znive
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Post by Znive » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:06 am

The RyanVM pack installs DRM crap!
Why does he do this to us!?!?

It has a new Microsoft DRM engine that doesn't even come with SP3.

Check your C:\Windows\System32\

"msdrm.dll"
"RmActivate.exe"
"RmActivate_isv.exe"
"RmActivate_ssp.exe"
"RmActivate_ssp_isv.exe"
"SecProc.dll"
"SecProc_isv.dll"
"SecProc_ssp.dll"
"SecProc_ssp_isv.dll"

...sweet Jesus

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Kelsenellenelvian
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Post by Kelsenellenelvian » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:14 am

He doesn't "Do this to us"

You chose to use the pack.

It says clearly what is included.

It includes what you would get from MS update.

I REALLY think you are in the wrong place.

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:40 am

If you don't like what's in RyanVM's pack, Znive, then you have other options. Complaining about what we provide for free will not engender good will here.
Last edited by 5eraph on Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Znive
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Post by Znive » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:41 am

redxii, your suggestion about dosnet_files is helpful.

The [dosnet_files] / [i386_compress] sections in entries.ini makes cleaning things up a bit easier.
It seems that they contain exactly the list of every possible file that nLite will be unaware of.

So the job is:

A) Go through each file in i386_compress, and identify the KB/addon it belongs to.
B) Decide if that KB/addon is desired.

If not:

1) Remove its entries from entries.ini
2) Remove it from RVMUpPck.inf
3) Remove the literal files from the pack
4) Try to find out if it had an .cat entry in \svcpack\* (how?)
5) Try to find out if it had an entry in \asms\ (how does this work?)

And afterwards:

C) Rely 100% on nLite for removal of the rest of the components, because it will know about everything else.


----

How can I further refine this?

Znive
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Post by Znive » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:50 am

if anyones pissed at me, get some balls
thats all i have to say ;)

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ENU_user
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Post by ENU_user » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:26 am

In rvmi, if a file already exists in compressed form the file will get compressed , as expected. for any new file you will need [i386_compress].
In nlite, the files that don't already exist on the source upon the integration, will automatically get compressed.

as for how to create an updatepack & *refinements*

you might want to download some stand alone updates\hotfixes:
1) learn to unpack them using any needed tools

2) learn to trace how updates are getting installed, using of course the guides and tools available
http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1290
.etc

the link isn't specific but it may help you in understanding the basics ..

Znive
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Post by Znive » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:34 am

Some of the files from entries.ini do not ever appear in RVMUpPck.inf, so I can't see where they're coming from?

For example:

d1,wuapi.mui
d1,wuaucpl.mui
d1,wuaueng.mui

And there's no file alias pointing it to something which DOES appear in RVMUpPck.inf

wuapi.mui = 100,,,,,,,2,0,0,wuapi.dll.mui

Why don't these correspond to any section's filelist in the RVMUpPck.inf?

..is that a bug?

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:14 am

Those three files are from the Windows Update Agent, which does not have registry entries in RVMUpPck.inf. This is by design.
  • Windows
    Update
    Application
    Programmer's
    Interface
    .
    Dynamic
    Link
    Library
    .
    Multilingual
    User
    Interface
Last edited by 5eraph on Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Znive
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Post by Znive » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:16 am

5eraph, that thing sounds like it wants to kill humanoids.

(not included by design... but why?)

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:18 am

Because the installer does not add those registry entries. Hard to add what doesn't exist. ;)

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beats
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Post by beats » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:29 am

Instead of modding Ryan's pack, take a look at Xable's Update Pack that only contains critical updates and is designed for use with nLite.

Znive
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Post by Znive » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:52 am

Xable has the same issue, has new files, and has to be modded as well.

For example,

"898461 - Software update 898461 installs a permanent copy of the Package Installer for Windows version 6.1.22.4"

This is entirely related to Automatic Updates and Windows Update.

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beats
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Post by beats » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:56 am

And what's the big deal with KB898461? It's hardly bloat.

Znive
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Post by Znive » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:58 am

It's bloat to me because my nLite disk cannot even support running Windows updates, as Windows Update is completely removed, so the files installed by that knowledgebase don't even work.

My philosophy on the setup is simply "everything works." -- I don't like broken files.

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Post by yumeyao » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:16 am

@Znive

Simply compare Ryan's Pack to your nlited disk(w/o his pack), then remove new added files from his pack and remove respective entries.
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Post by mr_smartepants » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:04 pm

Taken from the UpdatePack main page...

nLite Integration Directions
Step-by-step directions for how to integrate the Update Pack using nLite. Users should be advised that this is a third party integration method, meaning that problems which may arise after integration should be verified with the RyanVM Integratorbefore contacting me, or else they should be asked in the official nLite forums.

Have you tried your integration with RVMI yet? :rolleyes:
Have you asked your obviously nlite-related problems at the nlite forums?

Retort in 3...2...1...
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redxii
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Post by redxii » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:33 pm

mr_smartepants wrote:Have you tried your integration with RVMI yet? :rolleyes:
Have you asked your obviously nlite-related problems at the nlite forums?

Retort in 3...2...1...
His complaint is that the update packs are adding more files and nLite doesn't recognize these extra files because they don't come with XP..

--

Here's another thought: nLite lets you specify extra files to delete, doesn't it? Shouldn't be hard to get that info from the entries.ini and input the filenames into nLite.

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Post by boooggy » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:24 pm

znive
if u dont like any update packs, just use nlite to integrate all hotfixes u want.

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Post by bober101 » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:11 pm

what im seeing here is

a: hard headedness

b: using an altered source

fix these 2 things and ull get a propely updated build, then run it thru nlite.
XP theme source patcher
patches/overwrites ure default xp visual resources

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Post by ENU_user » Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:06 pm

i had once an application named "ISOJumper" that scanned & compared the entries on DOSNET.INF against files that needed to co exist on the source and in TXTSETUP.SIF it was also developed to help test the integrator on development.. and for doing just what you are seeking to do now. basically referencing anything obsolete for keeping the source completely clean.

I had it shared over here till some time ago..
by running it it would write Down any of obsoleted stuff it finds to an entries*ini. I got it perfected and then in a very unfortunate way, the external disk which it was on took a bad fall losing it with a big bunch of many other stuff , so that was a bad experience really, with that it also missed the opportunity of getting the needed update on the thread it was once on ..

you should attempt creating a removal entries*ini file using the [obsolete_entries] [filedelete] sections for those same files that are to be obsoleted whenever a new pack is out..

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Post by Znive » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:14 pm

redxii wrote:Here's another thought: nLite lets you specify extra files to delete, doesn't it? Shouldn't be hard to get that info from the entries.ini and input the filenames into nLite.
That would be easy, but it's not a clean solution -- because as we can see, a lot of these entries add stuff to the registry.
So you end up with ghost registry entries.

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Kelsenellenelvian
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Post by Kelsenellenelvian » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:25 pm

Awwwwwwww too bad.

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Post by code65536 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:41 am

Znive wrote:That would be easy, but it's not a clean solution -- because as we can see, a lot of these entries add stuff to the registry.
So you end up with ghost registry entries.
:lol: Anyone else sense the irony of someone using nLite complaining about a "clean solution"? If you really want a "clean solution", the last thing you want to use is nLite, which I personally avoid because of all the "helpful" things that it does and residue that it leaves behind. If you want squeaky clean, you gotta do it yourself. Otherwise, you are just providing entertainment (and fodder) in this thread.
My addons: CmdOpen - HashCheck - Notepad2 - MS Runtimes - DirectX

Into the breach, meatbags!

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Post by yumeyao » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:49 am

I fully agree with code. I use nlite only when i am making a disk for my friends and don't have much time.
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Post by newsposter » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:04 am

Someone lock this thread up before we go and get harsh on the boy........

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Post by mooms » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:20 am

Znive: if you don't want/need to run Windows Update, why bothering with update packs ?
After all, it's not mandatory.
And if you want help, ask kindly and stop acting like you're a smart ass and everyone elese are dumb !(but it's probably because of your age/lack of experience)

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Post by Znive » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:37 am

Alright,

Here's my update of RyanVM's pack.

Entries.ini has every file commented for the exact KB it corresponds to, so you can easily remove what you like.
RVMUpPck.inf has each section commented to give a KB description.
RVMUpPck.inf has all "see alsos" removed and switched over to a per-KB layout.
All sections labeled "RyanVM / Xx" are entries added by Ryan and don't correspond to any KB.

Here it is:
http://rapidshare.de/files/46906202/Rya ... d.rar.html

There's two lines I have labeled with "???" because they could not be identified or needed further commenting in the future.

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Kelsenellenelvian
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Post by Kelsenellenelvian » Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:05 am

Yeah like we will trust a "Hacked" pack like what you would put out...

Look you come and put yourself forward as a probable warez distributer, whining about 12 fucking megs of space and windows update.

Then you are rude to senoir staff.

Then without so-much as a "mother may I?" you hack the shit out of Ryans pack (Which is REALLY frowned upon) and have the audacity to link it here.

If your so damn smart the just fucking shut up while you are ahead.

OMG you DON'T know what these files are removed for?

mmc.chm
mstsc.chm
mstsc.exe
mstscax.dll
plugin.ocx
rdsktpw.chm

Try searching the web...

Znive
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Post by Znive » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:06 am

There's no risk of any sorts of hacks, the Update is just the .INI and .INF -- you have to use the files provided by Ryan.

ccl0
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Post by ccl0 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:19 am

did you get his permission to modify his work?

Znive
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Post by Znive » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:34 am

ccl0 wrote:did you get his permission to modify his work?
You're so obedient
Last edited by Znive on Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:45 am, edited 5 times in total.

Znive
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Post by Znive » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:35 am

So...

Currently there is a duplication of the "; KBxxxxx - Microsoft Foo" label in each section, meaning you have to edit stuff in up to 5 places to remove them from Entries.ini.
It may be possible to still further organize this layout so that Entries.ini only has a single location for each KB/addon followed by each of the sections it utilizes.
This causes the need to have repeated sections in the INI. (repeated once per KB/addon)

Like this:

Code: Select all

; KB Foo
[a]
xxx
[b]
yyy

; KB Bar
[a]
zzz
[b]
qqq
It's clean cause the KB's/addons only exist in one place in the INI. But...
Does the Microsoft installer have any known issues with that kind of INI / INF layout?

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Post by electrogen » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:09 am

Znive wrote:
ccl0 wrote:did you get his permission to modify his work?
You're so obedient
Well ccl0 has got a point.

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Post by Znive » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:18 am

Life is great and life is grand, and it's a beautiful day.

Breaking the law! Breaking the law!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psTUiQzNoxw&fmt=18

If RyanVM wants to sue me for adding comments to his INI file, well hopefully we can make an out of court settlement first before it goes that far.

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Post by 5eraph » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:23 am

On that note, let's take a time out to give Ryan a chance to comment before things go any further.

Locked