RyanVM Update Pack 2.0.1 - Released November 9, 2005

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Post by Sm0ker » Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:06 pm

Highmat = Yes
WGA Tool = Yes
WM Connect = No

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:53 pm

I really like things as they are. There's more flexibility and choice as it is. Why bundle stuff in the main pack that not everyone will use? It is the reason Addons were implemented, is it not?

If the legit WGA Tool is bundled, would it create problems with the cracked WGA Tool addon? I use the legit and cracked versions for different applications. Having the choice is more desirable, in my opinion.

With the WGA Tool being as easy to circumvent as it is, I can foresee that Microsoft may begin updating it more frequently than it currently is. It will become more work for Ryan to keep it up-to-date, especially if they constantly change their binaries and methods out-of-cycle. Microsoft has an independent team working on WGA, I believe we should continue doing the same.
Last edited by 5eraph on Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Fencer128 » Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:20 pm

5eraph wrote:I really like things as they are. There's more flexibility and choice as it is. Why bundle stuff in the main pack that not everyone will use? It is the reason Addons were implemented, is it not?

If the legit WGA Tool is bundled, would it create problems with the cracked WGA Tool addon? I use the legit and cracked versions for different applications. Having the choice is more desirable, in my opinion.

With the WGA Tool being as easy to circumvent as it is, I can foresee that Microsoft may begin updating it more frequently than it currently is. It will become more work for Ryan to keep it up-to-date, especially if they constantly change their binaries and methods out-of-cycle.
This is a very good argument too IMHO. Akthough I would personally like to see HighMAT and WGA in the update pack, I can understand why this may not be the best idea overall.

My only real thought concerning WGA is that at some point soon I'm sure it will become a pre-requisite for any kind of download or hotfix from MS. At this point is there really any great reason not to incorporate it into the pack, given in effect it will will just then be another part of MU, which is already included?

Andy
Last edited by Fencer128 on Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by keytotime » Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:23 pm

Good argument, as for problem's with the WGA, if the hacked one has the same filename, then there would be no problem overwriting.

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Post by RyanVM » Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:37 pm

The hacked WGA tool is just the same DLLs with some editing done to them. It wouldn't be a problem to use the hacked WGA addon since addons are extracted to i386 after the main update pack.
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Post by ViVa » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:58 am

Who is talking Windows Media Connect? I don't have that update, I take it that is caused by WMP10 Addon already containing that?

Btw, it's not that I use Windows internal burning system or whatever the hell that HighMAT is anyway, but I don't like to have updates after a fresh install. :) I don't think it's a problem to put that update in the main pack, just some files in I386 are overwritten during integration right?

The missing WGA tool is just annoying, since it always appears when you first enter WU/MU.

Can anyone give me a reason NOT to put HighMAT/WGA in the main pack? It's not like they use more resources when installed... Nobody would be harmed?

Btw, I don't think MS will ever change the fact that WGA is easy to circumvent, think about those thousands of pc's which won't be able to receive updates in that case, and are therefore potential slaves to new worms/virusses....

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Fencer128
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Post by Fencer128 » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:03 am

ViVa wrote:Can anyone give me a reason NOT to put HighMAT/WGA in the main pack? It's not like they use more resources when installed... Nobody would be harmed?
Potential instability/issues. In a corporate environment it may be that you only want to install what you need to minimise the possibility of future unforseen problems.
Btw, I don't think MS will ever change the fact that WGA is easy to circumvent, think about those thousands of pc's which won't be able to receive updates in that case, and are therefore potential slaves to new worms/virusses....
You don't need WGA for security patches (yet) - so I imagine that they will make it increasingly more difficult to cirumvent - not easier.

Andy

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Post by ViVa » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:08 am

Instability/issues? Can't that be said for Ryan's entire pack when used in a corporate environment? I don't see what HighMAT/WGA seperates from other updates?
You don't need WGA for security patches (yet) - so I imagine that they will make it increasingly more difficult to cirumvent - not easier.
You do need it. The thing is that you can disable it at "Manage Add-ons" section of IE, and it will work anyway, but if enabled and no legit copy of Windows, it will fail. You really think MS wants to go that far so only legal Windows copies can receive critical updates? I personally don't think so, due to reasons I mentioned above e.g..

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Post by Fencer128 » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:40 am

ViVa wrote:Instability/issues? Can't that be said for Ryan's entire pack when used in a corporate environment? I don't see what HighMAT/WGA seperates from other updates?
This is true. But if (like here) you're going with Ryan's packs for convenience, you need to be able to minimise your risks as much as is possible. Having said that, I want it in for some of our clients - but then I edit the pack to take out what I don't need anyhow.
You do need it. The thing is that you can disable it at "Manage Add-ons" section of IE, and it will work anyway, but if enabled and no legit copy of Windows, it will fail. You really think MS wants to go that far so only legal Windows copies can receive critical updates? I personally don't think so, due to reasons I mentioned above e.g..
If you use automatic updates, you don't need WGA installed to receive and install security updates. I don't know about warez copies and the like as that's not a problem for us.

As with your view on the future of WGA, I guess we'll just have to wait and see ;)

Cheers,

Andy

ViVa

Post by ViVa » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:04 am

I didn't know WGA wasn't needed when "automatic updates mode" is used.

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Post by RyanVM » Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:36 pm

1.) HighMAT is just an extension to the built in Windows CD burning support. If you don't use that feature, you'll never see HighMAT. (And all HighMAT is is a way to burn CDs with pictures/audio/movies which can be played in DVD players). More Information
2.) The bottom line with WGA is that Windows/Microsoft is going to require it to access the site from here out. Period. Whether it's in my pack or not, you're going to have to install it eventually one way or another. If you want to use a hacked version, that's your choice. Like I said in an earlier post, my including the regular one would have no impact on that anyway.

Like I said in the poll thread, I'm already strongly leaning towards including WGA (it's starting to annoy me too to have to install it all the time when I visit MU on a fresh install :P). As for HighMAT, I'll leave that to you guys to decide. I use my own Addons pack on my CDs (of course), so I don't really care one way or another how it gets on my CD so long as it's there in the end.

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Post by 5eraph » Fri Nov 25, 2005 3:31 pm

Didn't mean to cause a big stink about WGA. My main concern was the possible addon conflict.

Considering that WU/MU requires the WGA Tool (up to date or not) I can see the logic of including it in the main pack with MU. As I'm supporting several users of various levels I often have them check the Updates site when they have problems since some have it in their heads that using Automatic Updates will do more harm than good. It is for this reason that I include it in some form on all the discs I build.

I'm unbiased concerning HighMAT and WM Connect. I include them for the sake of completeness on my discs as well. They don't take up much space and someone might actually get some use out of them eventually. They're not seen unless someone looks for them when needed.
Last edited by 5eraph on Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by newsposter » Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:14 pm

I'd rather that any 'hacked' files such as WFA not be included by Rayn in his update packs.

You never know when MS will start clamping down on the open distribution of things like that.

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Post by 5eraph » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:17 pm

As far as I know Ryan is in good standing with Microsoft in that they have not asked him to cease and desist the distribution of his Update Packs. I see no reason for him to jeopardize that by including hacks to bypass their protections. If the WGA Tool is to be included I'm sure it will be the unaltered, legitimate version.
Last edited by 5eraph on Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:37 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Post by Protagonist. » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:25 pm

HighMAT = Yes
WGA = Yes (if there are no probs with the hacked version that's cool)
WMC2 = Include with official WMP10 addon

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Post by thefirstdohedo » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:30 am

Fencer128 wrote:
ViVa wrote:Instability/issues? Can't that be said for Ryan's entire pack when used in a corporate environment? I don't see what HighMAT/WGA seperates from other updates?
This is true. But if (like here) you're going with Ryan's packs for convenience, you need to be able to minimise your risks as much as is possible. Having said that, I want it in for some of our clients - but then I edit the pack to take out what I don't need anyhow.
You do need it. The thing is that you can disable it at "Manage Add-ons" section of IE, and it will work anyway, but if enabled and no legit copy of Windows, it will fail. You really think MS wants to go that far so only legal Windows copies can receive critical updates? I personally don't think so, due to reasons I mentioned above e.g..
If you use automatic updates, you don't need WGA installed to receive and install security updates. I don't know about warez copies and the like as that's not a problem for us.

As with your view on the future of WGA, I guess we'll just have to wait and see ;)

Cheers,

Andy
If you're talking about a corp environment, you won't use Ryan's pack for any reason anyway. It has far too many things that are unneeded in such a setting. In a corp environment any Sys Admin knows how to integrate using batch files and they merely reuse them... or they could use nLite, but they should NEVER install Ryan's pack thanks to the added applications (no offense Ryan).

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Post by RyanVM » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:18 pm

What added applications? Sure you're not confusing current versions for way older versions?

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Fencer128
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Post by Fencer128 » Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:12 am

If you're talking about a corp environment, you won't use Ryan's pack for any reason anyway. It has far too many things that are unneeded in such a setting. In a corp environment any Sys Admin knows how to integrate using batch files and they merely reuse them... or they could use nLite, but they should NEVER install Ryan's pack thanks to the added applications (no offense Ryan).
Well, if you would use nlite, surely that's as much as unknown as Ryan's packs when it comes to playing with your system files.

For the record, I've been following the development of the update pack since pre-1.3 and only now are we actually deciding to deploy it.

With regard to the application query, I agree with Ryan's comment above.

Cheers,

Andy
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Post by leelamb » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:01 pm

Here's a cheerful thought: in a few more months, XP will have SP3 available. That will probably make the HighMat issue go away. But WGA (or it's equivalent) will never go away, nor will Updates ever bee unnecessary. So RyanVM Update Packs will never go away (Please, TELL me they will never go away!!).

Now, the Update Packs are the one-and-only "must-have" for our Unattended CDs (unless you are compiling your own). After it is safely and legally installed, you can shoot for the moon, if you want to, with addons etc. This means that everyone who uses the Update Packs should want them "simple and pure" (I'm fishing for exactly the right words, and might not have succeeded in finding them).

If we want to avoid pitfalls -- and we should -- consider that failure to include WGA in your basic package is just as risky as including a cracked version of anything in it. Either way, it invites "unwanted and adversarial attention" from Microsoft, with whom we would like to remain friends.

RyanVM should NOT be asked or expected to take that risk. So, even though I wound up voting "No" to all but the basic hotfixes (and aren't they Ryan's Choice anyway?), I'm believing now that it's a good instinct he has to include WGA.

Fact it, I'm going to load the Update Pack even if it has paper doilies in it. (OK, maybe that's a bit excessive). I use Nero and don't need Highmat. But once in awhile I would use it and therefore I have it installed. Hey, once upon a time (long ago and far away) I got a solution by using Error Reporting!!

(In that light, Protagonist, I agree with you that WMC2 ought to be included with WMP10).
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Post by orcoxp » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:06 pm

I can see it now...

RVMUpdatePack4.0.0.cab = 2.3 MB


lol
;)
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orcoxp
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Post by orcoxp » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:18 pm

@Ryan

Did you say that you are tossing the drivers that come up on WU into your pack?
Cuz there is a VIA Rhine II Fast Ethernet Adapter on WU dated 11/27/05

Oh, and KB909520 ...Download here
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Post by RyanVM » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:51 pm

No, I'm not doing drivers.

As for a post-SP3 pack, we'll have to wait and see ;)
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Post by Protagonist. » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:53 pm

Orco I already posted that one in the hotfix hunt thread. And why would you upload it to rapidshare and give that as the download link? When you can download it right from microsoft?

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Post by 5eraph » Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:43 am

Since KB909520 appears in Microsoft Update as an optional update I think it deserves some mention it this thread. Many people here like the fact that WU/MU shows no updates after using a fresh Update Pack. The question now is should it be included in the main pack, an addon pack, or even included at all.

@Protagonist.
The alternate link is for those that can't validate their installation (for whatever reason ;)).

@orcoxp
You might want to consider requesting that driver in Bâshrat's DriverPack forum.
Last edited by 5eraph on Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by RyanVM » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:26 am

Why would you be mentioning new hotfixes in a thread for the current update pack version? Protagonist is correct, it belongs in the hotfix hunt thread. It's completely off-topic in this one.
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Post by Aussie » Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:55 am

Ryan

Noticed in the 2.01 pack you include wuweb.dll, however there are no entries in dosnet_files, txtsetup_files, or register.dll for the file (placing it in \system32)

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Post by Xable » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:54 am

Aussie

wuweb.dll is already on the cd, and there are entries for it in txtsetup and dosnet. Ryan just replaces the old version on the cd.

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Post by Aussie » Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:59 pm

Silly me...my mistake!
Thanks Xable

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Post by DisabledTrucker » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:02 pm

I agree wtih whatever Ryan chooses to do with the inclusion and exclusion of his packs. :)

Though to voice my opinion, I wouldn't mind having all three files in the main pack, would also keep me from having to use the add_on pack as well. Not that it's not a good pack, it's just that I have no need for the vast majority of what's in it, other than those two files. The other couple of files I can always add on with another updated pack or two later if I want to, or I can always create my own. I wouldn't want the hacked version anyways, but I seriously doupt that Ryan would even consider putting that into his packs.
Again though I must highlight, it's all ultimately up to whatever Ryan wants to do with his fine packs.
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Post by ViVa » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:42 pm

DisabledTrucker, that discussion ended 27-11-2005, link.

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Post by DisabledTrucker » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:46 pm

Ahh, I see now said the blind man, I never looked anywhere else for this issue only here where it was initially asked.
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Post by Acheron » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:28 pm

Ryan, can you remove

KB873374 - Microsoft GDI+ Detection Tool Registry Entry

from your pack since this is no longer necessary to complete Windows Update :D

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Post by orcoxp » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:38 am

Hey Ryan,

I found a small typo...

On line 1917...

Code: Select all

HKCU,"Software\Policies\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main\Feature Control","IMAGING_EMF_USE_RCLFRAMESIZE_KB905299",0x10001,1
Feature Control should not have a space in it

Edit: and the very next line as well
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Post by datalife » Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:51 am

HighMAT = No
WGA = Yes
WMC2 = No

ViVa

Post by ViVa » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:43 am

datalife wrote:HighMAT = No
WGA = Yes
WMC2 = No
datalife, that discussion ended 27-11-2005, link. Try to read other ppl's comments in a tread first?

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Post by datalife » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:47 am

My post is for remeber and not for vote!

ViVa

Post by ViVa » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:51 am

Your post doesn't matter since Ryan already made a descision 2.5 weeks ago.

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Post by Vista » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:29 pm

ryan will there be a updatepack this month ?

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Post by Kelsenellenelvian » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:33 pm

Hey Vista there is a sticky regardinding the next version why don't you look THERE???

ViVa

Post by ViVa » Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:43 pm

Vista, Ryan said prolly next sunday.

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Post by RyanVM » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:08 am

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