Possible new sticky?

Questions or comments on the switchless installers? Want to create a new one? Talk about it here.
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bphlpt
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Possible new sticky?

Post by bphlpt » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:40 am

Hey ELiTE,

You are the switchless master, and I mean no disrespect at all to your work. But I thought of a way to make it even more accessible to your users.

Since your list of Switchless Installers is so extensive, and they are being used by so many people, I wonder if you would be willing to make an index for them, similar to what Rado did here - http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3774? You could either list your releases alphabetically like Rado did, or by function, Browsers and Plugins, Anti-Malware, etc like filehippo does. The functional list would be especially useful for new apps that are not familiar by name.

Yes, I know that I could just use Google or the forum's search function to search for a particular app. But you have a knack for finding great new apps that I have never heard of, and how can I easily search for an app when I don't know it's name? Yes, I could just scroll through the Switchless section, but that's a LOT of pages to look through. LOL

I realize that this would be a lot of work to set up, but maintaining it shouldn't be too bad. If you don't include version numbers and/or release dates (though they would be very useful), then the only changes will be for new or retired apps. There might even be some members who would be willing to help with the initial setup?

I think this would really showcase your work, and I'm sure it would be stickied, like Rado's is, which will make it even more convenient. This would also let people easily find all the installers you have worked so hard to make without feeling overwhelmed with all the reading that is otherwise required. Lazy I know, no excuse, but there it is.

Please consider this. I know many users would greatly appreciate it.

Cheers and Regards

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Post by vmanda » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:06 am

I agree, also i have allready proposed something like here ...

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Post by keloo05 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:21 am

Very good proposal. I like rado's way of announcing new updates, in a single post, and I think this can be less time consuming for you, because you won't have to post in every thread when you update.

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Post by =[FEAR]=JIGSAW » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:59 am

Great idea, but now you must just tell the man about this thread.!

How must he know a thread called "Possible new sticky?" is directed at him ???

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Post by bphlpt » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:34 am

He knows. I sent him a PM directing his attention here at the same time I made the initial post. I also know that the admin staff has been asked in the past, I raised the question once myself, if it might be possible to break his threads out into a separate area or subforum. I don't know if that will happen, but I hope so. If that happens and he is able to put together an index as well, it will really make it easier for users to browse through all the tremendous apps he has put together. He has made some that I have seen nowhere else. It's a real service to the community. As big a chore as it will be to do the initial work of establishing an index, are there any volunteers who might be willing and able to provide him assistance?

Cheers and Regards

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Post by newsposter » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:26 pm

rado also maintains an outside website for addon linstings.........

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Post by Kelsenellenelvian » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:17 pm

Good luck.

eLiTe is\has always meet thses requests with (Near vehemious) retorts and sarcacm.

While I fully agree he might need his own section I don't think it will happen.

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Post by 5eraph » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:19 pm

ELiTE PMed me before this thread was made. I've been meaning to have a closer look at what I can do to help, but have been busy lately.

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Post by bphlpt » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:26 pm

Actually Kel, he was quite cordial in his response to me and my PM and agreed he thought it was time to do something along these lines. He also shared with me that he had already written 5eraph about it, I just didn't think it was my place to share that fact here, so I'm glad that 5eraph did. So perhaps there is hope. I know that many people would like it to happen for many different reasons, so I guess we'll see. Personally, I like the idea of a subforum within the Switchless section with a single index post either stickied in the subforum or in the main Switchless section, whichever seems to make more sense. People might question why his work should be treated differently that everyone else's, but with his volume and frequency of updates he really is a special case, isn't he?

And while 5eraph is making changes to the forum, I would REALLY like it if another subforum for Switchless could be made specifically for Win7 apps - the ones that won't work for XP. I know we've talked about this before and it has been suggested to put them in the Win7 section, but I think it makes more sense to leave them in Switchless, just segregated out. Update packs and AddOns are separated by OS, so I don't see why Switchless can't be done in a similar manner. But maybe that's just me.

Cheers and Regards

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Post by ccl0 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:56 am

yeah i remember asking him over a year ago about doing this. all the other (smaller) addon makers and their work get literally buried by his multitude of posts/bumps etc.

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Post by adric » Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:50 am

Elite Switchless installers are also starting to trickle into the Windows 7 Other Update Packs section. I agree with bphlpt about expanding the Switchless Installer Discussion section to include Win7 related installers.

In general, I think everyone's beef about the large amount of individual Elite postings is that it becomes difficult at times to find what you are looking for. I often find using the search facility here costs more time than it is worth for me, but that could be because I don't yet know how to search efficiently. :oops: Hopefully a solution to alleviate this problem will be found.

Al

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Post by ccl0 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:48 am

any progress on this?

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Post by dumpydooby » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:14 pm

bphlpt wrote:People might question why his work should be treated differently that everyone else's, but with his volume and frequency of updates he really is a special case, isn't he?
quantity vs quality

I'd rather the releases that require more specialized knowledge (like Yumeyao's .NET Framework releases) not be buried beneath a plethora of installers that can easily be made with one of the many tools available out there.


I think vmanda put it quite nicely:
vmanda wrote:Some peoples learned something from my posts. Can you say same thing about yours?

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Post by shiner » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:45 pm

Alternative suggestion,

Create a new sub-forum:
Specialized Unattended Installers / Tools

For multi-mode installers, installers with many commands or scripts included, the "True' addons, and automated installer makers.

Generic svcpack installers and addons can remain in the "Switchless Installer" sub-forum.

By generic, I mean ones that use a config.txt similar to:

Code: Select all

;!@Install@!UTF-8!
GUIMode="2"
RunProgram="JoeBlow.exe /SilentSwitch"
;!@InstallEnd@!
For a lot of software this type of addon is sufficient, but for others more work is needed.
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

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Post by ccl0 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:46 am

logged in today after about a week. 230 new posts.. 80% which seemed to be from one person.

this is starting to become epidemic proportions the likes we have not seen since Mrs Peel used to flood the forums with all her addons.

btw, i wonder what ever happened to her? or if she recovered from that poison gas, or whatever it was. i haven't seen a post from her in a couple years

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Post by ccl0 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:36 pm

well i guess nothing is to be done about it. i dont even bother looking in those sections anymore because its basically one big spam box for one person

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Post by mooms » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:47 am

ccl0 wrote:well i guess nothing is to be done about it. i dont even bother looking in those sections anymore because its basically one big spam box for one person
+1

the problem is even bigger when we check for new posts since last visit.

One big post with all Elite's addons seems the best solution imo.

Or a website/blog with his addons, like this one: http://portableappz.blogspot.com/
(to elite: you will eventually even made some money with advertisment.)

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Post by ccl0 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:29 am

i even asked ryanvm to take a look at this topic about a month ago. got no reply. so i guess that means he is 'ok' with one person basically spamming/taking over a sub-forum.

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Post by Kelsenellenelvian » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:30 am

Like I said on Nove 16th of last year. "It will not happen"

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Post by user_hidden » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:17 am

yawn !

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Post by cosy » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:20 am

oh my god! RyanVM should indeed take a look at this thread....

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Post by keloo05 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:23 pm

cosy wrote:oh my god! RyanVM should indeed take a look at this thread....
And ELiTE also.

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Post by ccl0 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:16 pm

Kelsenellenelvian wrote:Like I said on Nove 16th of last year. "It will not happen"
yeah but you never said why. seems strange how a person is allowed to basically take control of a section of the forum and the owners of this website dont really care what happens.
maybe some should start to assert their authority?

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Post by Kelsenellenelvian » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:32 pm

I am not an owner I am a lowely mod of only the win7 section.

The only thing I can do is not update any of my switchless in that section because they just get buried as soon as I post them...

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Forum House Cleaning Volunteers?

Post by pasito » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:10 pm

Hey, sorry if this is an impossible or obviously ruled-out solution, but couldn't this be resolved by use of tags, folders or additional sort columns on the forum? Some way that anyone could achieve the useful tree-view they desire in a given moment? [I vaguely remember a post years ago by Ryan regarding the desire but not having the funds/free time to upgrade the forum software or something like that.]

Would 50-100hrs free labor help? Because if the main, or a main obstacle to such features is time/labor--If I can help in this, or some other way, Ryan or Elite, please let me know: I'm not a coder. The only competence I can offer is time and energy for data entry type work, but I'd gladly help out if that's useful and practicable for you. As one of the only ways I can give back to the forum, it'd be my pleasure..
[Ctrl][Shift] go outside

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Post by user_hidden » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:22 pm

A simple sub forum named "Miscelaneous Addons & Installers" could be created.
but that is not in my power, RyanVM would have to do that. I could then
move the threads to the new sub-forum.

It is Ryan's decision whenever he may read this.

Other than that at this point continueing the discussion is fruitless.

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Post by OnePiece Alb » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:15 pm

and much more simple all work may be fate from an addon creator, for example in autoit (or even file.cmd together with the wget.exe), is very very simple do a AddOn Creator for SvcPack AddOn

Ciao.

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Post by ricktendo64 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:22 pm

user_hidden wrote:A simple sub forum named "Miscelaneous Addons & Installers" could be created.
but that is not in my power, RyanVM would have to do that. I could then
move the threads to the new sub-forum.

It is Ryan's decision whenever he may read this.

Other than that at this point continueing the discussion is fruitless.
That's actually a good idea, since his installers aren't really (directly) silently installed, instead they are installed via another EXE you could classify them differently and make a sub forum for these types of installers

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Post by OnePiece Alb » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:25 pm

as to said Kelsenellenelvian above open a new section hmmmmm i believe perhaps RyanVM did not want to create the precedent, tomorrow will be another one ask new section ehhh

Ciao a tutti.

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Post by bphlpt » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:02 am

To reiterate, I never meant for my original post to discourage any installer/addon/pack maker. ELiTE does a wonderful job at bringing a wealth of free apps to light that I have never heard of before. Many thanks to him for that. But they do tend to bury everyone else's posts. And even finding one of his apps when you don't know the name you are looking for... Those are the two things I wish we could find a better solution for.

Cheers and Regards

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Post by dumpydooby » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:07 pm

If anything, I say ELiTE's spamming discourages other installer/addon/pack makers. Nobody wants to put in hard work building anything when some dickhead is just going to bury it underneath a bunch of worthless no-effort shitpacks.

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Post by =[FEAR]=JIGSAW » Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:51 am

Might be easier to just rename "Switchless Installer Releases" to "ELiTE"

:rolleyes: :mrgreen:

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Post by cosy » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:43 am

is it really hard to make another thread or "sticky" for this gentleman?

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Post by 5eraph » Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:17 am

The hard part is creating a separate thread that lists all of a member's addons. The member in question must create this thread for him or herself as desired, in order for that member to be able to update it. Once this thread is created any moderator assigned to that subforum can sticky it.

If any member wishes to create such a thread listing his or her addons and installers (plural) then I will sticky it—no questions asked. If any member needs help finding all of their addons, please PM me and I will do what I can to assist.

For simplicity, this is how it must be.

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Post by bphlpt » Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:08 pm

This sounds like a solution. If vmanda, Escorpiom, Ricktendo64, YumeYao, Kel, 5eraph, dumpydooby, shiner, OnePiece, user_hidden, and anyone else who wanted one made their own index thread, like Rado354 has done, with links to all their addons, installers, or makers, and those threads were all stickied, then any updates could always be easily found. If enough threads became stickied, then the actual individual app posts wouldn't even show up on the first page of the subforum anymore. It wouldn't matter that they were buried since you could easily find them, or browse for them, using the member's index thread. In fact, once those indexes were made, then some industrious member or moderator could more easily make an overall app index organized by type of app - browser, office, archive, or whatever - similar to what BrokenZerØ did here - http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8232 - for .NET Framework Packs, which would truly be a service to all forum members.

Cheers and Regards

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Post by dumpydooby » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:55 pm

Why can't ELiTE just be told that he's no longer permitted to spam the site?


Seems a bit ridiculous that the entire community is even having to ask the guy to stop being a jerk. This shouldn't really be presented as a polite request. He should just be told to kick rocks if he's unwilling to cut the shit.


Am I imagining something here? Is not everyone in agreement that his posts are a burden? I don't get what the issue is with just voting him off the island if he's not going to play nice.

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Post by 5eraph » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:53 am

dumpydooby wrote:Why can't ELiTE just be told that he's no longer permitted to spam the site? [...] Am I imagining something here? Is not everyone in agreement that his posts are a burden?
I'd like to provide you with a serious answer here. This is not intended as a personal attack.
Wikipedia wrote:Forum spam is the creating of messages that are advertisements, abusive, or otherwise unwanted on Internet forums. It is generally done by automated spambots, or manually.
The focus of your argument appears to be that his posts are "otherwise unwanted." I'll counter that most releases on this forum were not specifically requested, regardless of who posted them. Public interest in the releases on this forum generally developed after they were posted; they were created and posted without want. Should addons and update packs only be released upon request?

Let's go further by asking, "unwanted by whom?" I will not belittle people's opinions here, but a vocal minority should not dictate what is or is not acceptable for the majority. I'm interested in offering solutions that could work for everyone, as this one has in the past for rado354. I've even gone so far as to offer personal assistance. What more should I do to help?

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Post by dumpydooby » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:56 am

5eraph wrote:
dumpydooby wrote:Why can't ELiTE just be told that he's no longer permitted to spam the site? [...] Am I imagining something here? Is not everyone in agreement that his posts are a burden?
I'd like to provide you with a serious answer here. This is not intended as a personal attack.
Wikipedia wrote:Forum spam is the creating of messages that are advertisements, abusive, or otherwise unwanted on Internet forums. It is generally done by automated spambots, or manually.
The focus of your argument appears to be that his posts are "otherwise unwanted." I'll counter that most releases on this forum were not specifically requested, regardless of who posted them. Public interest in the releases on this forum generally developed after they were posted; they were created and posted without want. Should addons and update packs only be released upon request?

Let's go further by asking, "unwanted by whom?" I will not belittle people's opinions here, but a vocal minority should not dictate what is or is not acceptable for the majority. I'm interested in offering solutions that could work for everyone, as this one has in the past for rado354. I've even gone so far as to offer personal assistance. What more should I do to help?
First let's go over the purpose of this forum. I'd say the reason this place exists in its present form is to provide a place for members of this community to discuss the very specific and somewhat technical niche that we all seem to enjoy so much. The community as a whole seems to prefer a forum over, for example, a facebook group or twitter or a blog or a chat room. We've decided that this here setup serves our purposes quite nicely. We initiate discussions about our little niche by starting threads to which others may respond. Do you agree with me up to this point?

It's not that his releases are unwanted. It is his threads that are unwanted. His threads just take up space. Their sole function is tantamount to that of a weed. To answer the question, "Unwanted by whom?" Unwanted by those who are participating in this discussion. I'd like to think that bphlpt, vmanda, mooms, shiner, user_hidden, ricktendo64, and adric are collectively more valuable to this community than ELiTE or the no-names that download his stuff.

Dare I that the "vocal minority" is speaking on the behalf of the core of our community. I have little doubt that those who are remaining silent on the matter (yumeyao and other staff members, for example) are also not too keen on his spam. If I were betting man, I'd say that you're not too fond of it either. So sure, maybe this crowd is outnumbered by the lurkers that view his threads and download his junk, but I think it speaks volumes that this thread has generated more discussion than all of his threads combined. Not only that, but his threads actually hinder discussion - the primary existential function of this forum - by creating an unnecessary burden for everyone that has to weed through it.

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Post by mooms » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:38 pm

I think the main problem is: no one, starting with ELiTE, wants to take the time to merge its hundred of posts into a single one.
Obviously deleting all posts can be done only by a moderator.
However this is the best solution to avoid all other releases to be burried.
Sticky is not even needed as ELiTE post almost every day so the post would always be on the first page.

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Post by 5eraph » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:22 pm

The forum is divided into subforums for different purposes, dumpydooby. ELiTE posts his threads where they belong. He's not breaking any rules. I'm sure you remember Mrs Peel. She was a prolific contributor, just as ELiTE is. And the same complaints were leveled against her.
mooms wrote:One big post with all Elite's addons seems the best solution imo. [...] this is the best solution to avoid all other releases to be burried.
Understood, mooms. But it could be difficult to edit existing links and hashes in one long post. My update pack post is hard enough to edit as needed. I would think a simple release thread index should suffice.

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Post by mooms » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:50 pm

that will not address the problem.
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Post by cosy » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:59 pm

I indeed didn't want to say this but there you are-- just like "Steve wonder" Is this really hard to see?
sorry may be I went to much but something has to be done to this or else , we have lost the sense of this forum. Even in a small crowded house, one can still make a small separate room/compartment to accommodate only the "cups" in the shelves.

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Post by bphlpt » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:28 pm

My interpretation of what 5eraph suggests, is that if enough release thread indexes get made and stickied then they will fill up the first page in the forum index so everyone's posts will be equally buried, including ELiTE's, yet easily found using the release thread indexes. I hope that made sense. ie:

Sticky for rado354
Sticky for vmanda
Sticky for Escorpiom
Sticky for Ricktendo64
Sticky for YumeYao
Sticky for Kel
Sticky for 5eraph
...
Sticky for dumpydooby
Sticky for shiner
Sticky for OnePiece
Sticky for user_hidden
release post
release post
release post
release post
release post

Is this what you had in mind 5eraph?

Cheers and Regards

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Post by 5eraph » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:37 pm

Correct, bphlpt.

I'm open to suggestions, mooms and cosy.

I cannot create subforums. I will not arbitrarily delete threads. And I will not censor or punish any member without just cause. Those hell-bent on solutions involving these methods will need to convince Ryan.

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Post by dumpydooby » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:30 am

5eraph wrote:The forum is divided into subforums for different purposes, dumpydooby. ELiTE posts his threads where they belong. He's not breaking any rules. I'm sure you remember Mrs Peel. She was a prolific contributor, just as ELiTE is. And the same complaints were leveled against her.
Yet when you go into that thread, all you see is one guy that has an issue. Nobody else seems to have a problem with it. Ergo, her threads were not "unwanted"/spam. ELiTE's threads, however, are "unwanted," as is evidenced by the number of folks voicing their opinion in this thread.

That's not to mention that her releases were significantly more respectable given they're update pack addons that were each manually created by her; they are not silent installers that were built using some automated tool. 100% of ELiTE's slapdash releases, in contrast, can be made with one of the numerous tools available for packaging an installer as a silent installer. ELiTE is the eHow of RVM Forums.

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Post by cosy » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:32 am

may be ELiTE is "Ryan" haha ! in disguise, otherwise one can just "sticky" all his posts in Switchless Installers ( he won't need look far away to see his thread) and that should also make him proud of his work.. isn't it?
wouldn't this solve the whole issue?

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Post by vmanda » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:27 am

@bphlpt
1. i agree with method suggested
2. maybe you missed to include "Sticky for Elite" in your list :(

@5eraph
I want to ask: if one thread is closed, one post (first post) from this closed thread can be edited?

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Post by user_hidden » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:43 am

I have started a release thread "stickied" of my releases.
The rest of the addon/installer makers can make a list, start a thread, and 5eraph or myself can STICKY it afterwards.


Index of user_hidden Releases

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Post by cosy » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:28 am

user_hidden wrote:I have started a release thread "stickied" of my releases.
The rest of the addon/installer makers can make a list, start a thread, and 5eraph or myself can STICKY it afterwards.
I think this will do for the time being and save "the world". hope the other gentleman does the same too.
A nice gesture

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Post by 5eraph » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:37 am

It is a nice gesture, cosy. Thanks, user_hidden. :)

When a thread is closed, vmanda, no posts can be edited by anyone except a moderator.
dumpydooby wrote:some dickhead is just going to bury it underneath a bunch of worthless no-effort shitpacks.
dumpydooby wrote:ask the guy to stop being a jerk. This shouldn't really be presented as a polite request. He should just be told to kick rocks if he's unwilling to cut the shit.
dumpydooby wrote:[current thread participants] are collectively more valuable to this community than ELiTE or the no-names that download his stuff.
dumpydooby wrote:ELiTE is the eHow of RVM Forums.
Are these disparaging remarks entirely necessary, dumpydooby? Other members have been banned for less.

Perhaps there would have been a more heated argument if Mrs Peel weren't so charismatic. Quality doesn't enter into it. I liked her just fine, but didn't use most of her releases. I could just as easily call her a spammer. But I won't.

Locked