nLite and integration methods (holy off-topic, batman)

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Protagonist.
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Post by Protagonist. » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:41 pm

I personally don't see the need for the gui installer, I mean it's a nice touch and all. But basically most of people use nLite to integrate the pack and so care nothing about the installer. The people that do it manually probably do it that way for a particular reason and maybe they are more advanced users and so don't even mind doing the editing of the notepad files and what-not. :)

Hollywood
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Post by Hollywood » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:48 pm

Protagonist. wrote:I personally don't see the need for the gui installer, I mean it's a nice touch and all. But basically most people use nLite to integrate the pack and so care nothing about the installer.
Ditto :)

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orcoxp
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Post by orcoxp » Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:54 pm

Just the opposite here...I refuse to use nlite...it leaves it's crap everywhere
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Hollywood
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Post by Hollywood » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:03 pm

orcoxp wrote:Just the opposite here...I refuse to use nlite...it leaves it's crap everywhere
Then you wouldn't need a GUI anyway right?

canuckerfan
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Post by canuckerfan » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:54 pm

I prefer manually myself. Full control over everything.

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Sun Jul 31, 2005 10:55 pm

nLite has its uses, I'm sure. I'd just prefer Ryan's method of integration for his own pack as he'd know best how it is to be done. GUI or not, he's mentioned that v1.3.0 works a bit differently than previous packs. All we can do is wait for Siginet, but he's fallen mysteriously silent over the past seven days...

I've only played around with v1.0b4 of nLite. I'm impressed with its featureset, though I haven't tried to do anything with it except integrate SP2 and (attempt to) make an unattended installation CD. It still needs work in my opinion, but from comments others have made it seems to do what it's supposed to do well enough. I'll consider trying it again when I have a couple new systems ready in September to test it fully. Hopefully by then I'll know what I need to do everything I want done without nLite's help. :)

Hollywood
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Post by Hollywood » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

5eraph wrote:nLite has its uses, I'm sure.
:)
This is very confusing; what good is nlite without Ryan's pack?

Protagonist.
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Post by Protagonist. » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

canuckerfan wrote:I prefer manually myself. Full control over everything.
I don't really see what control you have.

1. click "integrate" button on the gui installer.
2. done.

Not much control right? Imo, about the same as nLite.

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Mavericks choice
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Post by Mavericks choice » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:08 pm

orcoxp wrote:Just the opposite here...I refuse to use nlite...it leaves it's crap everywhere
Don't really see a problem usin NLite. Care to elaborate on the left over crap ya speak of?
The Man from Aus

Hollywood
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Post by Hollywood » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:14 pm

Mavericks choice wrote: Don't really see a problem usin NLite. Care to elaborate on the left over crap ya speak of?
Yeah! I don't want any crap!

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Mavericks choice
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Post by Mavericks choice » Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:25 pm

Hollywood wrote:
Mavericks choice wrote: Don't really see a problem usin NLite. Care to elaborate on the left over crap ya speak of?
Yeah! I don't want any crap!

Well I'd like to kno what the Hell the crap is asides the couple I put out each day??
The Man from Aus

Protagonist.
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Post by Protagonist. » Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:17 am

5eraph wrote:Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know the only real functional difference between Ryan's integration of the UpdatePack and nLite's is that Ryan's method fully integrates the SP2 updated driver cabinet into the main driver cab so all drivers stay resident on the system drive after Windows installation is complete. I like this feature and it's why I do it Ryan's way.
By drivers you're talking about video, sound, chipset drivers, etc. right? I didn't really know that the manual method would differ any compared to nLite concerning drivers. But I remove ALL drivers with nLite and integrate my own anyway. :D

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:36 am

I was considering doing something like that as well, Protagonist. My problem is that I'm often repairing other people's computers and it's very nice to have just one CD to use for anything I'm working on. My ideal CD is the opposite of yours; I'd like to have all possible drivers available so Windows recognizes anything that might be installed in the computer during Windows installation.

I'd also like to have up-to-date drivers available for anything I might decide to install later without having to be connected to the internet. I'm hoping to find a way to fit BTS's driverpacks into DRIVER.CAB so they're always available. True Plug-And-Play. :D
Last edited by 5eraph on Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Co33iE

Post by Co33iE » Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:19 am

5eraph wrote:Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know the only real functional difference between Ryan's integration of the UpdatePack and nLite's is that Ryan's method fully integrates the SP2 updated driver cabinet into the main driver cab so all drivers stay resident on the system drive after Windows installation is complete. I like this feature and it's why I do it Ryan's way.

nLite is good for permanently removing unwanted Windows components to slim down a Windows network/CD installation, as nuhi's site explains. I'm not sure of what orcoxp describes as extra stuff; I simply haven't gotten that far into it.

Ryan's motivation for a GUI seems simple enough: ease of use. Why should it be necessary for the user to add entries to various files when the pack does everything else? I would agree that this could be accomplished without a GUI, but this way everything can be done in a simple window that almost anyone could understand. It can also make it better for Ryan in that there may also be far fewer people asking for explicit directions on how to make his pack work (even though it's explained very well on the site).
nlite is handy if u just want todo quick tasks at the price of having to disable windows file protection..... but i cant really see the point of of disabling it as it leaves your system wide open to attack of system files.

ryanvm pack dosnt have any issues from manual install from what i seen of it. been using it awhile now with no issues todo with wfp turned on.

if nlite didnt have problems with wfp i would prolly use it myself :(
hopefully its fixed in next update, latest release nlite 1.0 beta 5 still has wfp problems.

imjimmy

Post by imjimmy » Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:03 am

if nlite didnt have problems with wfp i would prolly use it myself
hopefully its fixed in next update, latest release nlite 1.0 beta 5 still has wfp problems.
Care to elaborate what these WFP issues with the nlite 1.0 beta 5 are??

I have just prepared a Windows XP CD with ryan's pack using Nlite. I don't want to format my comp later if a problem comes up.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know the only real functional difference between Ryan's integration of the UpdatePack and nLite's is that Ryan's method fully integrates the SP2 updated driver cabinet into the main driver cab so all drivers stay resident on the system drive after Windows installation is complete. I like this feature and it's why I do it Ryan's way.
And about the Drivers if I use Nlite's integration for Ryan's pack - I install all my drivers seperately from a manufacturer's CD after the install of XP. Will there be a problem in this case.

Co33iE

Post by Co33iE » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:05 am

imjimmy wrote:
if nlite didnt have problems with wfp i would prolly use it myself
hopefully its fixed in next update, latest release nlite 1.0 beta 5 still has wfp problems.
Care to elaborate what these WFP issues with the nlite 1.0 beta 5 are??

I have just prepared a Windows XP CD with ryan's pack using Nlite. I don't want to format my comp later if a problem comes up.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know the only real functional difference between Ryan's integration of the UpdatePack and nLite's is that Ryan's method fully integrates the SP2 updated driver cabinet into the main driver cab so all drivers stay resident on the system drive after Windows installation is complete. I like this feature and it's why I do it Ryan's way.
And about the Drivers if I use Nlite's integration for Ryan's pack - I install all my drivers seperately from a manufacturer's CD after the install of XP. Will there be a problem in this case.

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?s=2 ... 4048&st=70

Seems tobe with nlite not updating entries for the file checks, tho nuhi says it will be fixed in next version..

Protagonist.
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Post by Protagonist. » Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:10 pm

Yes supposedly all SFC problems with nLite are fixed in the next version.

But what do you mean disabling SFC leaves you system open to attacks? I have SFC disabled and I don't feel vulnerable at all. If you have a decent SPI firewall on your router, comboed with a software firewall like windows and some anti-virus and anti-spyware you won't be attacked so disabling SFC doesn't leave you at any kind of risk unless you mess stuff up yourself.

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buletov
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Post by buletov » Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:32 pm

Or simply avoid using iexplore.exe...
Never know what life is gonna throw at you.

imjimmy

Post by imjimmy » Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:46 pm

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?s=2 ... 4048&st=70

Seems tobe with nlite not updating entries for the file checks, tho nuhi says it will be fixed in next version..
Oh My god! That's a big bug. I had no idea. Thanks for telling me. And to think i was thinking of installing it on my major system.

Looks like i will have to Integrate SP2 + Ryan's pack manually. Hopefully that would have no problems.

Just one thing , can someone here tell me how to make a bootable ISO after i slipstram SP2 and add Ryan's pack to it.
I have only the dump of the original CD on the HDD with me . So i don't have the MS image file which is on the bootable CD.

Thanks,

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:38 pm

nLite is very granular in that regard. You can set it to only make the ISO. I've had no problems doing it that way, and since nLite already includes the bootfile it's by far the easiest method I know if you already have nLite installed. I always did it with nero before.
Last edited by 5eraph on Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

imjimmy

Post by imjimmy » Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:28 am

Thanks 5eraph!

So if i manually slipstream SP2 and manually do the Ryan's pack and lastly use Nlite ONLY for creating the bootable ISO i won't have any WFP problems right??

Would it be safe to apply some registry tweaks inbuilt in Nlite?

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:03 am

I haven't had any problems with Windows File Protection using that method. And I really don't foresee any problems using nLite's registry tweaks either, though my knowledge in that area is very limited.

Where you run into trouble using v1.0b5 or earlier, I've read, is when removing components or adding altered files (the hacks like changing the TCP/IP stack). It is then that WFP can cause problems. nuhi says that he has component removal fixed, but it won't be implemented until 1.0b6.

imjimmy

Post by imjimmy » Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:21 am

Where you run into trouble using v1.0b5 or earlier, I've read, is when removing components or adding altered files (the hacks like changing the TCP/IP stack). It is then that WFP can cause problems. nuhi says that he has component removal fixed, but it won't be implemented until 1.0b6.
I heard that the problem comes when you try and install any drivers like those for the sound card , graphics card etc etc.

Hopefully he can fix it in the next release.

BTW do you see any problem if with registry tweaks i also try and create an unattended installation that will have some parameters filled in by default and will ask the rest from the user.

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:04 am

I don't really know since I haven't integrated drivers yet. I don't have a test PC to see how it works.

Ryan believes that problem may be caused by trying to register too many CAT files and is often seen after integrating his latest pack. I have to say I tend to agree with him because it makes sense to me. All WHQL certified drivers and most hotfixes have CAT files. Those files are the signatures WFP uses to check for unaltered system files. He's hit a limit of around 150 CATs before having problems and is still looking for a feasable solution, but a work-around is in place for UpdatePack v1.3.0.

I can tell you this regarding the creation of an unattended setup using nLite: I made two attempts at it, but neither worked for me using v1.0b4. I did get it to work by creating my own WINNT.SIF file with help from MSFN's Unattended XP CD Guide. Your mileage may vary. :)

Also, I haven't tried nLite's registry tweaks with v1.2.2b of the UpdatePack. I inserted my own into Ryan's INF file after using Gnome's WMP10 Slipstreamer and that works fine.

imjimmy

Post by imjimmy » Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:33 am

don't really know since I haven't integrated drivers yet. I don't have a test PC to see how it works.

Ryan believes that problem may be caused by trying to register too many CAT files and is often seen after integrating his latest pack. I have to say I tend to agree with him because it makes sense to me. All WHQL certified drivers and most hotfixes have CAT files. Those files are the signatures WFP uses to check for unaltered system files. He's hit a limit of around 150 CATs before having problems and is still looking for a feasable solution, but a work-around is in place for UpdatePack v1.3.0.
I believe the problem is with Nlite Rather than Ryan's pack. People who haven't used Nlite integrate SP2 manually and also Ryan's pack manually have not reported this problem.
I can tell you this regarding the creation of an unattended setup using nLite: I made two attempts at it, but neither worked for me using v1.0b4. I did get it to work by creating my own WINNT.SIF file with help from MSFN's Unattended XP CD Guide. Your mileage may vary.
Thanks man.. I will try and see how this method works out.

BTW what do you think about Autopatcher post install. Is the pack any good. Because it works post Install so it might not have the issues that nlite and Ryan's pack might have. There is a bother of Installing and using the pack after installing XP. But i cud go this way if it's error free. I am preparing a new machine with which i do not want to experiment too much.[/quote]

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RyanVM
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Post by RyanVM » Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:16 pm

imjimmy wrote:I believe the problem is with Nlite Rather than Ryan's pack. People who haven't used Nlite integrate SP2 manually and also Ryan's pack manually have not reported this problem.
I've run into it on my end, and I only do manual integrations. Of course, it should be noted that nLite has other WFP issues seperate from this one which aren't caused by my pack.

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