This is easy ....This is easy.......This is easy........BS
Went to download page OK
Got Integrator OK
Got update pack OK
Got DX9 add on OK
Got .NET 1.1 Wrong
Got .NET 2.0 Wrong
Got Adobe Wrong
etc
Run Integrator...it doesn't recognize your packs
Dialog says files of type cab 7z zip etc
Most of your packs are exe oops
OK lets try extracting them first oops
So basically i got a .44 Magnum and a box ot .22 shells
C'mon guys
Before anyone insults me, yes I studied manuals, tutorials, forums
I am college educated and 147 IQ
So maybe my question isn't stupid; Maybe the structure of the site is
My question: What's up with that?
Beginning to regret finding this site
You should not extract any addons. The exe's are supposed to be in the addons. The integrator is what will extract the addons for you and read the important entry file that is placed inside the addon.
exe's are not supported until the release of v1.5.
For Addons you can get many of them here:
http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=511
or search the forums for more:
http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=7
You are really making it harder than it really is.
exe's are not supported until the release of v1.5.
For Addons you can get many of them here:
http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=511
or search the forums for more:
http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=7
You are really making it harder than it really is.
any file with a .cab or .7z extension should be compatible with the integrator if its linked on or from this forum. if its a exe, then its a silent installer (if you were to double click it, it would install with no user interface prompts)
the integrator currently does not support silent installers, so you can either learn how to use runonce, mannual adding to svcpack, or the lazy method by using nlite addon maker to package it into a cab file to be added with the rest of your addons without much effort.
don't extract them or unzip them, when you run the integrator it is looking for either 7z or cab files. selecting multiple at a time so you can integrate them at once.
the integrator currently does not support silent installers, so you can either learn how to use runonce, mannual adding to svcpack, or the lazy method by using nlite addon maker to package it into a cab file to be added with the rest of your addons without much effort.
don't extract them or unzip them, when you run the integrator it is looking for either 7z or cab files. selecting multiple at a time so you can integrate them at once.
Wow...arrogant much?
So, uh, Mr. Genious Guy, where does it say anywhere that my switchless installers work with the Integrator??? In fact, they aren't. Never have been, never will be. They're an entirely different project which existed before the Update Pack or Integrator ever did. If you want to integrate them in your CD, use the MSFN Unattended Guide or create an addon for them using the steps detailed on the forums here.
So, uh, Mr. Genious Guy, where does it say anywhere that my switchless installers work with the Integrator??? In fact, they aren't. Never have been, never will be. They're an entirely different project which existed before the Update Pack or Integrator ever did. If you want to integrate them in your CD, use the MSFN Unattended Guide or create an addon for them using the steps detailed on the forums here.
Get up to $200 off on hosting from the same people who host this website!
http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2357
http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2357
Agreed, no one told me to extract them first. But, no one told me not to, either.
The only reason I did was an attempt to avoid coming here with what would turn out to be a silly problem.
Since these were posted directly below the Integrator, and in the absense of any contrary info, I truly can't see that I was out of the box in expecting them to work together, as is. I've looked at the download page and cannot tell where I'm mistaken.
grief: thank you for the info on run once and nlite. The screen shot is exactly what I saw, and is why I posted.
Siginet: thank you for the forum info. However, in hours of reading the forums it became obvious to me that all of those add ons, add ins, packs, whatever, while desirable, were beyond my capability. They were talking coding, scripts, run once etc. I am bright enough to know my limitations. That is precisely why I determined it best to stick with the ones on the main download page, in the mistaken belief that they work together, hand in glove. Without a steep learning curve.
Obviously I AM making it harder than necessary. But, in the absense directions, you give a wrench to a caveman, he ain't gonna know what to do with it. Granted, I'm the troglodyte.
Finally, in all honesty, would I be better off investing my time in a completely manual setup followed by a disk image for possible reinstalls. That was my plan before I stumbled on this site. I'm a simple home user, not a tekkie. I was seduced by the talk of how easy this route is........wrong
Ryan arrogant no frustrated yes where does it say they dont, you're the one who posted them right next to each other, not me. Perhaps you should check your download page. Get some neutral people to look at it and ask them how clear it isn't. No not a genius, but no dummy either. Maybe, just maybe, the site could use some very minor edits to avoid this confusion. I haven't been around your project forever, and my crystal ball is currently in the shop.
The only reason I did was an attempt to avoid coming here with what would turn out to be a silly problem.
Since these were posted directly below the Integrator, and in the absense of any contrary info, I truly can't see that I was out of the box in expecting them to work together, as is. I've looked at the download page and cannot tell where I'm mistaken.
grief: thank you for the info on run once and nlite. The screen shot is exactly what I saw, and is why I posted.
Siginet: thank you for the forum info. However, in hours of reading the forums it became obvious to me that all of those add ons, add ins, packs, whatever, while desirable, were beyond my capability. They were talking coding, scripts, run once etc. I am bright enough to know my limitations. That is precisely why I determined it best to stick with the ones on the main download page, in the mistaken belief that they work together, hand in glove. Without a steep learning curve.
Obviously I AM making it harder than necessary. But, in the absense directions, you give a wrench to a caveman, he ain't gonna know what to do with it. Granted, I'm the troglodyte.
Finally, in all honesty, would I be better off investing my time in a completely manual setup followed by a disk image for possible reinstalls. That was my plan before I stumbled on this site. I'm a simple home user, not a tekkie. I was seduced by the talk of how easy this route is........wrong
Ryan arrogant no frustrated yes where does it say they dont, you're the one who posted them right next to each other, not me. Perhaps you should check your download page. Get some neutral people to look at it and ask them how clear it isn't. No not a genius, but no dummy either. Maybe, just maybe, the site could use some very minor edits to avoid this confusion. I haven't been around your project forever, and my crystal ball is currently in the shop.
By the way if they dont work together "never have never will" why did your coadmin. just tell me that they will in v1.5 which is in beta.
Duh, are you guys on the same page or even the same planet
You guys are obviously brilliant, to come up with this project and code it, etc. just dont overlook this simple stuff, like explaining your work. Edsel had a great car but it flopped because he couldn't convince people.
Ryan, I know you're PO'd at me, just dont let that blind you to the truth of what I am saying. A wise man can learn as much from his enemies as from his friends. ( however I'm not your enemy )
Duh, are you guys on the same page or even the same planet
You guys are obviously brilliant, to come up with this project and code it, etc. just dont overlook this simple stuff, like explaining your work. Edsel had a great car but it flopped because he couldn't convince people.
Ryan, I know you're PO'd at me, just dont let that blind you to the truth of what I am saying. A wise man can learn as much from his enemies as from his friends. ( however I'm not your enemy )
Last edited by John Galt on Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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newsposter
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John Galt we were all newbies here at one time. So it is understandable to make mistakes. This site has been running for over 2 years with many users around the world. We can't please everyone.
The manual to the integrator can be found if you click on the help menu and select "Online Help".
In the manual you will see that it explains you need to use UpdatePacks and Addons. It also has some pictures as well.
Ryan has been very busy with his personal life latley so he hasn't had much of a chance to try all of the features of v1.5 yet. But direct switchless installer support has been added. As long as it is an installer that requires no user interaction or parameters the integrator can integrate it to your disk. This new feature is only to simplify what we allready do with switchless addons. There are many other addons you can get here that actually slipstream utilities to your disk instead of adding switchless installers. I'm sure you'll enjoy the use of the integrator once you have learned how simple it is to use.
The manual to the integrator can be found if you click on the help menu and select "Online Help".
In the manual you will see that it explains you need to use UpdatePacks and Addons. It also has some pictures as well.
Ryan has been very busy with his personal life latley so he hasn't had much of a chance to try all of the features of v1.5 yet. But direct switchless installer support has been added. As long as it is an installer that requires no user interaction or parameters the integrator can integrate it to your disk. This new feature is only to simplify what we allready do with switchless addons. There are many other addons you can get here that actually slipstream utilities to your disk instead of adding switchless installers. I'm sure you'll enjoy the use of the integrator once you have learned how simple it is to use.
Let's say I have a business, we'll call it John's Razor Store. Now I've convinced you that John's Super Duper Razor will give you the best shave of your life. You come to my store and buy one cause you've got a date with Eva Longoria. On the shelf right next to it are John's Super Duper Razor Blades. You buy a pack to go with your new razor. You get home with just enough time to get ready for your date.
Lo and behold, John's Blades don't fit John's Razor. How do you feel. Just so you don't feel like a dummy, you spend more time trying to make them fit, no luck. Hmmm, no instructions, either.
You call me. I tell you you can get instructions at my other store across town. You get there, instructions say you can make them fit but you'll need needle nose pliers, an arc welder and a tool that Bob's Razor Shop (nLite) carries. You don't know how to weld so you call me back. I tell you that John's SUPER Super Duper Razor will work with those blades. You go in search of John's SUPER Super Duper Razor. Nobody has one. Now you are beginning to feel a little silly, but you've got a lot of time and effort invested in this snipe hunt, soooo. You call me again.
Now I get around to telling you that John's SUPER Super Duper Razor isn't even available yet. But you're really making it much harder than it has to be.
My partner, chimes in that that Johns blades don't fit the razor "never have, never will". Who told you they would.
Some flunkie stockboy in the back echoes 'yeah, who said they would.'
Now how do you feel. Like the idiot you were trying to avoid being. But because you have allowed me to jerk you around for so long. you're really making it much harder than it has to be.
You guys deal in logic. Point out the failure in mine. Intellectual integrity would demand a serious response as opposed to some more witty repartee.
Like my friends said........I shoulda got a Mac
No need to reply...I'm gone
Lo and behold, John's Blades don't fit John's Razor. How do you feel. Just so you don't feel like a dummy, you spend more time trying to make them fit, no luck. Hmmm, no instructions, either.
You call me. I tell you you can get instructions at my other store across town. You get there, instructions say you can make them fit but you'll need needle nose pliers, an arc welder and a tool that Bob's Razor Shop (nLite) carries. You don't know how to weld so you call me back. I tell you that John's SUPER Super Duper Razor will work with those blades. You go in search of John's SUPER Super Duper Razor. Nobody has one. Now you are beginning to feel a little silly, but you've got a lot of time and effort invested in this snipe hunt, soooo. You call me again.
Now I get around to telling you that John's SUPER Super Duper Razor isn't even available yet. But you're really making it much harder than it has to be.
My partner, chimes in that that Johns blades don't fit the razor "never have, never will". Who told you they would.
Some flunkie stockboy in the back echoes 'yeah, who said they would.'
Now how do you feel. Like the idiot you were trying to avoid being. But because you have allowed me to jerk you around for so long. you're really making it much harder than it has to be.
You guys deal in logic. Point out the failure in mine. Intellectual integrity would demand a serious response as opposed to some more witty repartee.
Like my friends said........I shoulda got a Mac
No need to reply...I'm gone
Dude... where did you download the integrator? The official link is on the official website. The link on Ryans forum points directly to the official website to download it. And what is wrong with the help button built into the program?(Kind of like the instructions on how to use your razor are on the back of the package) Also... what is wrong with the integration instructions right here on this site?
RyanVM Integrator Integration Directions
What more do you need. I have tried to explain it to you multiple times in this thread. I even stated that we were all newbies at once and it's nothing to worry about. Man... it's like you tried really hard to try and find a flaw and that was all you could come up with... and it isn't even a flaw.
Like I said... we can't please everyone. I'm sorry you feel that way.
Good luck finding the perfect razor...or errr... something. BTW... if I was going on a date with Eva Longoria I sure as hell wouldn't wait till the last minute to get ready. 
RyanVM Integrator Integration Directions
What more do you need. I have tried to explain it to you multiple times in this thread. I even stated that we were all newbies at once and it's nothing to worry about. Man... it's like you tried really hard to try and find a flaw and that was all you could come up with... and it isn't even a flaw.
Like I said... we can't please everyone. I'm sorry you feel that way.
Good luck finding the perfect razor...or errr... something. BTW... if I was going on a date with Eva Longoria I sure as hell wouldn't wait till the last minute to get ready.
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newsposter
- Posts: 1131
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:31 am
Poor analogy.
The blades fit the razor, but the shaving cream that was right next to the razor did not work very well. You put the blade and the shaving cream on the razor but it doesn't seem right. So instead of looking/asking around on how to use the shaving cream, you yell that the store's layout sucks.
Switchless installers did not derive from the Integrator project. They are something that existed before the integrator and are part of the same unattended install world as the integrator. Had you done any research you would have found out how to properly use switchless installs. There are plenty of places that explain what they are and how they work.
I guess this goes to show ignorance is only trumped by the willingness to learn.
The blades fit the razor, but the shaving cream that was right next to the razor did not work very well. You put the blade and the shaving cream on the razor but it doesn't seem right. So instead of looking/asking around on how to use the shaving cream, you yell that the store's layout sucks.
Switchless installers did not derive from the Integrator project. They are something that existed before the integrator and are part of the same unattended install world as the integrator. Had you done any research you would have found out how to properly use switchless installs. There are plenty of places that explain what they are and how they work.
I guess this goes to show ignorance is only trumped by the willingness to learn.
There have been lots of topics on this forum, asking "How to use RyanVM's switchless installer with nlite or RVM Integrator. And some of them were UNSUCCESSFUL with integrating them. But nobody came here and opened a thread and said silly things to creators on this site. I dont know if you can understand my thoughts, I will be glad.
Its a pity that you're not speaking nice to a person that's worldwide known. Also insisting that you have high IQ's
Maybe you get your exam marks very high, but you dont know how to thank to people, huh.
Me, couldnt pass lots of my exams at university, but NEVER talked to people like this.
Me think, dont reply anymore here and will be gşad to say you goodbye.
(I guess this is what you want to hear, with challenging. I wont reply here anymore, also will delete your pm's in case you send to me.)
Edit: I'm admired by Siginet who's everytime cool and calmed. Replying to genious people's highly IQ'ed, educated SILLY questions. You rock Siginet. I love this site
Its a pity that you're not speaking nice to a person that's worldwide known. Also insisting that you have high IQ's
Maybe you get your exam marks very high, but you dont know how to thank to people, huh.
Me, couldnt pass lots of my exams at university, but NEVER talked to people like this.
Me think, dont reply anymore here and will be gşad to say you goodbye.
(I guess this is what you want to hear, with challenging. I wont reply here anymore, also will delete your pm's in case you send to me.)
Edit: I'm admired by Siginet who's everytime cool and calmed. Replying to genious people's highly IQ'ed, educated SILLY questions. You rock Siginet. I love this site
(Note the generic title of the page)http://www.ryanvm.net/msfn/ wrote:RyanVM's MSFN Files Page
Note things related to my update pack, including the Integrator link.First Section wrote:Windows XP Updates
Note there's no mention of anything related to the pack or the Integrator.Second Section wrote:Switchless Installers
Lot's of content, including talk of addons. No mention of switchless installers.http://www.ryanvm.net/msfn/updatepack.html wrote:Lots of content
Things look pretty separated to me?
BTW, I was never PO'd at you, Mr. Galt. I just didn't appreciate your tone (and still don't). Also, as Siginet pointed out, the Integrator is developed independent of my packs (though he obviously takes feature requests from me). No, I wasn't aware that he was adding switchless installer support, and it was completely his decision, not mine.
Get up to $200 off on hosting from the same people who host this website!
http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2357
http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2357
problem is john, this is free stuff,and this aint no store so...(nobody does this for money)...yeah poor anal analogy dude.if u had paid for what ever ure having problems with you would maybe be intitled to sum refund of sum sort,but i guess ud be the type of person to buy free stuff....
XP theme source patcher
patches/overwrites ure default xp visual resources
patches/overwrites ure default xp visual resources
if you actualy read the screen infront of you, its hard to go wrong.
in the screenshot i posted, it says in the titles of the input boxes in the integrator...
"Choose an Update Pack Cab" (ryans update pack)
"Choose Addon Pack CAB(s)" (uhh program addons)
no where does it say to uncompress anything. in the open window it shows the file types that the integrator will use.
not sure how you're having problems, certainly no reason to start posting the attitude here when its so simple it just makes you look stupid.
i already told you if you wanted to use a switchless installer, use the nlite addon maker (they have a tutorial with pictures) to make a cab file out of the switchless installer. only thing left to do is download it and do about 2 minutes of work.
in the screenshot i posted, it says in the titles of the input boxes in the integrator...
"Choose an Update Pack Cab" (ryans update pack)
"Choose Addon Pack CAB(s)" (uhh program addons)
no where does it say to uncompress anything. in the open window it shows the file types that the integrator will use.
not sure how you're having problems, certainly no reason to start posting the attitude here when its so simple it just makes you look stupid.
i already told you if you wanted to use a switchless installer, use the nlite addon maker (they have a tutorial with pictures) to make a cab file out of the switchless installer. only thing left to do is download it and do about 2 minutes of work.
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GasPipeJimmy
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Agreed! Signet is one of the people that makes this site a great resource.techtype wrote:Yes, thanks Siginet for staying cool (when others lose their heads) and all your superb work. You and Ryan are the best!!MrNxDmX wrote: I admire Siginet who's everytime cool and calmed. Replying to genious people's highly IQ'ed, educated SILLY questions. You rock Siginet. I love this site
In defense of the question and not the attitude of the poster (which very likely is generated by frustration) this site does kind of suck when it comes to giving really clear newbie-level directions to someone that just walks in here and wants to just make a slipstreamed XP CD-ROM.
It took me DAYS to figure out how that whole "swirchless installer" thing was all about and what the hell I could do with them.
If you are new it is also hard to even know enough how to search for the right answer, let alone ask without some weenie telling you to read the FAQ (especially when it turns out that the real problem was not addressed IN the FAQ) or directions that omit a simple thing that the old timers will automatically assume is a given but the rest of the world has no clue about.
Anyways, I also hate people that will bitch and whine without trying to make things better, so if Ryan will post it, I'll offer to write, or help write, a quick-start guide that will likely eliminate a lot of the very same questions from ever coming up in the future.
GasPipeJimmy wrote:Agreed! Signet is one of the people that makes this site a great resource.techtype wrote:Yes, thanks Siginet for staying cool (when others lose their heads) and all your superb work. You and Ryan are the best!!MrNxDmX wrote: I admire Siginet who's everytime cool and calmed. Replying to genious people's highly IQ'ed, educated SILLY questions. You rock Siginet. I love this site
In defense of the question and not the attitude of the poster (which very likely is generated by frustration) this site does kind of suck when it comes to giving really clear newbie-level directions to someone that just walks in here and wants to just make a slipstreamed XP CD-ROM.
It took me DAYS to figure out how that whole "swirchless installer" thing was all about and what the hell I could do with them.
If you are new it is also hard to even know enough how to search for the right answer, let alone ask without some weenie telling you to read the FAQ (especially when it turns out that the real problem was not addressed IN the FAQ) or directions that omit a simple thing that the old timers will automatically assume is a given but the rest of the world has no clue about.
Anyways, I also hate people that will bitch and whine without trying to make things better, so if Ryan will post it, I'll offer to write, or help write, a quick-start guide that will likely eliminate a lot of the very same questions from ever coming up in the future.
Thanks guys. It means a lot. I do agree... we all need to be a little nicer to new commers. At first glance the stuff we have here looks confusing. But once we figure out how it all works we find it is so easy. I think that is why a lot of us old timers tend to forget that we were all newbies at one time. The way I look at it I don't care if people ask the same question over and over. I'll still answer them or point to a previous thread where the answer is. The more threads with the answer... the easier it is to find the answer. I tried my best to help this guy... but he seemed like he didn't really want help. It seemed more like he was trying to pick some fights. Maybe he was just having a bad day? Who knows. we all have bad days sometimes too.John is having a different perspective on this Update-Packs-Addons-Switchless-Installers-Integrator thingy ...
To keep the discussion neutral, the general view of this website/project is something like "Download-Run the Integrator-Install your XP-You're Done"
Except for the Switchless Installers, the rest can't be run off the shelf immediately. Lots of tweakings, readings at MSFN's Unattended Forum, trials-n-errors are needed.
I would've blame MS for making us, the users, hard to integrate the hotfixes into the CD The methods are there, but there's no official automation/tool from MS itself ...
Ryan's and other's work here are the 'easiest' way to update these periodic hotfixes into an XP CD. It's semi-automated, a little rough here-n-there, but generally, it's the best tools out there.
This forum may be considered as 'hobbyist' forum, though.
p/s: No offense to Ryan and others! Just my 2c view ... cheers! 
To keep the discussion neutral, the general view of this website/project is something like "Download-Run the Integrator-Install your XP-You're Done"
Except for the Switchless Installers, the rest can't be run off the shelf immediately. Lots of tweakings, readings at MSFN's Unattended Forum, trials-n-errors are needed.
I would've blame MS for making us, the users, hard to integrate the hotfixes into the CD
The methods are there, but there's no official automation/tool from MS itself ...Ryan's and other's work here are the 'easiest' way to update these periodic hotfixes into an XP CD. It's semi-automated, a little rough here-n-there, but generally, it's the best tools out there.
This forum may be considered as 'hobbyist' forum, though.
p/s: No offense to Ryan and others!
Just my 2c view ... cheers! -
Mrs Peel
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I was alerted to this post by a member yesterday but by the time I got here I could see that there was no need to intervene because Ryan and Siggie had joined in and those two boys are are quite clearly big enough (well in Siggies case it's actually skinny enough) and ugly enough to take care of themselves.
But to see how this thread has continued to progress in the 24 hours since I find I cannot resist the urge to have one of my famous Mrs Peel Hissy Fits - not to Ryan or Siggie who have handled the situation quite competently in their own personal way - but to the REST of you who took it upon yourselves to jump on the bandwagon here.
This topic touches upon two of my pet hates about internet chat forums and one of my pet amusements.
My pet amusement being how bizarre it is to me that people think that they know what is motivating another person online from just reading a handful of words they typed in a message window. I don't think anything more needs to be said about that heh.
And my pet hates being newbie bashing and cultish sycophancy.
I came here as a total newbie knowing probably even less than this new guy does about operating systems and how integrating unattended installers works and even though I have been releasing my own addon packs here for 18mths now I am STILL struggling with some of this stuff and find much of it still quite confusing - as my erratic attempts to make uninstallers over these last two weeks will clearly tell you.
For fucks sakes, even I have been confused about how to install some of Ryans packs from the main page and had to ask another member privately for help last week. Can I now expect some of you to jump down my throat too and treat me like a lazy dumbarse and tell me that it is my own fault because I never read the forums? I have probably spent more hours in my time here reading and re-reading informational posts than I have actually making the addons I release and still some of this stuff has taken over a year to sink in to my brain!
I don't care what you techy superstars think about how easy it is to learn and find information on this web site but it has always been MY experience that even the most dedicated learner can struggle to find what they need to know here. I don't think it is personal insult to the administrators and staff here to say that the documentation on this site sucks. It's been discussed at length here many times before and at the urging of members Ryan started up a site Wiki but it has never really gotten off the ground due to apathy and that is collectively the failing of ALL of us!
So what fucking right do we have to jump all over every new member who comes here asking questions that we judge to be "the height of newbie ignorance, arrogance or laziness" just because WE - the experienced members - have collectively been too elitist and apathetic to consolidate our collective knowledge into one central place? Every time I see a post like this where you members who are "tech legends in your own mind" bandwagon on some poor newbie I just want to scream and bitchslap you all into the middle of next week!
And the WORST thing about it for me is that for every one inexperienced member here who starts a post out of their utter frustration at our lack of consolidated learning resources here there will surely be at least a hundred or so more lurking and reading all the snotty superior responses to their questions and are made less likely to speak out for themselves when they find themselves struggling - and judging from this thread, quite wisely so!
I know that when I observe posts like these and see newcomers (and sometimes established members too) being berated (either overtly or covertly) in this way for technical stuff that I myself am also ignorant of then it makes ME feel small too! What kind of social culture are you trying to cultivate on this forum by doing this for fucks sakes? Sometimes you even make ME feel like I am not intelligent enough to belong here!
And what kind of social culture are you sycophants trying to cultivate here by the spewing forth of all your drooling praise for the administration in front of newcomers like this when (god forbid!) somebody gives the mere hint that they are criticising the status quo around here? What is the message you want us to hear by this? Are we to think that you are some kind of elite member here by trying to portray yourself as a Fan Boy to the bosses?
And whats so bloody wonderful about preserving the "status quo anyway". Do you want this to be a "community" or a fucking "cult"? Only CULT members behave in the way that some of you do here - they suck up to their leaders and never question them and assassinate any newcomer who might dare to suggest that there is room for improvement.
Well I for one do not want to be part of some online CULT and I resent the way some of you treat newcomers here as if we are some kind of elitist closed group where you must "qualify" to belong by having a certain kind of technical intelligence and a certain kind of blind loyalty to the senior members.
What kind of closed mind cannot see that the observations of new people are sometimes more valid than those of established members in any group of homo sapiens - because newcomers have a fresh set of eyes to see things that the rest of us have complacently taken on as the "accepted norm"?
So to those of you who took it upon yourselves to jump in here and lord it over this new guy with how wonderful you are at understanding all this stuff that doesn't come so easily to the rest of us - go do something bloody useful and start contributing all your "superior knowledge and understanding" to our Wiki section for fucks sakes.
And to the others of you who seized upon this as an opportunity to slather your undying cultish loyalty and admiration upon the site administrators (some of you for the gazillioneth time) at the expense of alienating a new member - you are just downright cowardly and creepy to me.
But to see how this thread has continued to progress in the 24 hours since I find I cannot resist the urge to have one of my famous Mrs Peel Hissy Fits - not to Ryan or Siggie who have handled the situation quite competently in their own personal way - but to the REST of you who took it upon yourselves to jump on the bandwagon here.
This topic touches upon two of my pet hates about internet chat forums and one of my pet amusements.
My pet amusement being how bizarre it is to me that people think that they know what is motivating another person online from just reading a handful of words they typed in a message window. I don't think anything more needs to be said about that heh.
And my pet hates being newbie bashing and cultish sycophancy.
I came here as a total newbie knowing probably even less than this new guy does about operating systems and how integrating unattended installers works and even though I have been releasing my own addon packs here for 18mths now I am STILL struggling with some of this stuff and find much of it still quite confusing - as my erratic attempts to make uninstallers over these last two weeks will clearly tell you.
For fucks sakes, even I have been confused about how to install some of Ryans packs from the main page and had to ask another member privately for help last week. Can I now expect some of you to jump down my throat too and treat me like a lazy dumbarse and tell me that it is my own fault because I never read the forums? I have probably spent more hours in my time here reading and re-reading informational posts than I have actually making the addons I release and still some of this stuff has taken over a year to sink in to my brain!
I don't care what you techy superstars think about how easy it is to learn and find information on this web site but it has always been MY experience that even the most dedicated learner can struggle to find what they need to know here. I don't think it is personal insult to the administrators and staff here to say that the documentation on this site sucks. It's been discussed at length here many times before and at the urging of members Ryan started up a site Wiki but it has never really gotten off the ground due to apathy and that is collectively the failing of ALL of us!
So what fucking right do we have to jump all over every new member who comes here asking questions that we judge to be "the height of newbie ignorance, arrogance or laziness" just because WE - the experienced members - have collectively been too elitist and apathetic to consolidate our collective knowledge into one central place? Every time I see a post like this where you members who are "tech legends in your own mind" bandwagon on some poor newbie I just want to scream and bitchslap you all into the middle of next week!
And the WORST thing about it for me is that for every one inexperienced member here who starts a post out of their utter frustration at our lack of consolidated learning resources here there will surely be at least a hundred or so more lurking and reading all the snotty superior responses to their questions and are made less likely to speak out for themselves when they find themselves struggling - and judging from this thread, quite wisely so!
I know that when I observe posts like these and see newcomers (and sometimes established members too) being berated (either overtly or covertly) in this way for technical stuff that I myself am also ignorant of then it makes ME feel small too! What kind of social culture are you trying to cultivate on this forum by doing this for fucks sakes? Sometimes you even make ME feel like I am not intelligent enough to belong here!
And what kind of social culture are you sycophants trying to cultivate here by the spewing forth of all your drooling praise for the administration in front of newcomers like this when (god forbid!) somebody gives the mere hint that they are criticising the status quo around here? What is the message you want us to hear by this? Are we to think that you are some kind of elite member here by trying to portray yourself as a Fan Boy to the bosses?
And whats so bloody wonderful about preserving the "status quo anyway". Do you want this to be a "community" or a fucking "cult"? Only CULT members behave in the way that some of you do here - they suck up to their leaders and never question them and assassinate any newcomer who might dare to suggest that there is room for improvement.
Well I for one do not want to be part of some online CULT and I resent the way some of you treat newcomers here as if we are some kind of elitist closed group where you must "qualify" to belong by having a certain kind of technical intelligence and a certain kind of blind loyalty to the senior members.
What kind of closed mind cannot see that the observations of new people are sometimes more valid than those of established members in any group of homo sapiens - because newcomers have a fresh set of eyes to see things that the rest of us have complacently taken on as the "accepted norm"?
So to those of you who took it upon yourselves to jump in here and lord it over this new guy with how wonderful you are at understanding all this stuff that doesn't come so easily to the rest of us - go do something bloody useful and start contributing all your "superior knowledge and understanding" to our Wiki section for fucks sakes.
And to the others of you who seized upon this as an opportunity to slather your undying cultish loyalty and admiration upon the site administrators (some of you for the gazillioneth time) at the expense of alienating a new member - you are just downright cowardly and creepy to me.