user_hidden....the NEW RyanVM?

Windows XP Professional Update Pack discussion.
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brendown
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user_hidden....the NEW RyanVM?

Post by brendown » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:30 am

Hi all
As this is my first post on the forums, I was hesitant to start with what could possibly be seen as a bit of sarcastic question in the subject of this post. Well it's not so please don't take it that way.

I've been checking the website for the past few months now eager to reinstall Windows on my PC and have been tempted to use the RyanVM January 18th update pack. However, I know by Murphy's Law that the second I do that Windows XP Post-SP3 Update Pack 1.0.4 will be listed. It's not the end of the world obviously but I guess the longer I leave it, the more I think there might be the next update.

Since it's been 5 months since the last RyanVM update pack, I decided to have a look at the 'Other Update Packs' made available by the avid disciples of RyanVM. I came across the update pack from "user_hidden" which, as he states, is basically the January 18 pack that he's been updating for his own use.

My question, after this very long winded intoduction, is this:
If RyanVm were to update his post SP3 pack to 1.0.4, do you think it would basically match what user_hidden has included in his?

I've tried searching for this on the forums but it seems like quite a hush hush topic when enquiring about future updates.

Cheers

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:14 am

I believe user_hidden has done a fine job. I've used his pack for a few family reinstalls lately. But he hasn't kept up with the QFE updates that Ryan is known for including. So far, with the notable exceptions of MSXML4 SP3 and the re-inclusion of WGA that Ryan removed after some controversy, only high priority updates have been added.

brendown
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Post by brendown » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:30 am

Maybe I'm missing something but user_hidden states even in the title of his update pack that he's using QFE updates. Also, the log on his update pack seems to include MSXML4 SP3. ???

Come to think of it, I'm not too sure if this discussion belongs in a new topic. Maybe I should have posted this in the user_hidden sticky to do with his update pack?

Feel free to move it if that's possible :-)

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:19 am

It's true that user_hidden is using the files from the QFE branch of the high priority updates that he adds, but high priority updates also include a GDR branch. QFE updates (aka hotfixes) do not contain a GDR branch and are not usually distributed through WU, MU, or AU. QFE updates do not fix security issues. KB824994 shines some murky light on this difference.

For example, KB970238 is a high priority update. When you open its update package you will see SP3GDR and SP3QFE folders which contain files for those respective branches. KB961187, on the other hand, is a QFE update. When you open its update package you will see only an SP3QFE folder containing files for that branch.

ccl0
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Post by ccl0 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:32 pm

the whole QFE vs GDR thing always confused the hell out of me

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Post by brendown » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:15 pm

Jeez, tell me about it! I've been all over the net for the last hour trying to read up about it.

From what I've come across, QFE releases should include all the GDR updates; so you're basically getting the best of both worlds: Quick Fix 'emergency' updates along with General updates that have been tested properly. (??? Please correct me if I'm wrong)
However from 5eraph's example above, KB961187 is said to be a QFE update but doesn't include any GDR updates so I guess I'm stumped again. :(

Anyway, does RyanVM request QFE updates specially from Microsoft Support then?
Come to think about it, if I was to take my Windows XP SP2 CD and slipstream SP3 (WindowsXP-KB936929-SP3-x86-ENU.exe) into it, would it not be better, for sake of update consistency, to then slipstream a GDR update pack as opposed to the QFE pack as I'm assuming SP3 is a GDR release?

.....(I think I've just gone and fried my brain..... :tard: )

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code65536
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Post by code65536 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:21 pm

clandren wrote:the whole QFE vs GDR thing always confused the hell out of me
Let's say that after RTM, there are 4 updated versions of a file:
v0 - original
v1 - adds a new public fix ("pub1") (something that appeared on WU, like a security fix)
v2 - adds a new "private" fix ("priv1")
v3 - adds a new "private" fix ("priv2")
v4 - adds a new public fix ("pub1")

v1 QFE will contain the "pub1" fix, v1 GDR will contain the "pub1" fix; aside from the names, they're the same
v2 QFE will contain the "pub1" and "priv1" fixes, v2 GDR does not exist
v3 QFE will contain the "pub1", "priv1", and "priv2" fixes, v3 GDR does not exist
v4 QFE will contain the "pub1", "priv1", "priv2", and "pub2" fixes, v4 GDR contains only "pub1" and "pub2"

QFE is cumulative (and QFE is eventually what becomes the next service pack).

GDR only contains the "important" fixes.

They're kept as separate "branches" in update deployment (as in, once a file is a QFE version, all subsequent updates to that file will be QFE, if there is a choice) because if you go from v4 QFE to v4 GDR, you suddenly lose all those "private" fixes that you had. (And they are also separate branches in the code versioning sense; with GDR being a dead-end maintenance branch and QFE being the "trunk" maintenance branch that eventually becomes the next SP.)

And QFE/GDR refers only to the extent of deployment and test coverage. Fire drill security fixes still come in both GDR and QFE flavors, and if the hastiness of those emergency patches causes problems, both GDR and QFE are affected. QFE just contains more fixes (the "private" fixes) that have been released to a much smaller population and thus does not get as much testing coverage as the "public" fixes that get pushed out to over a billion people.
Last edited by code65536 on Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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crashfly
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Post by crashfly » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:20 pm

Great explanation code65536. I think even I understood that. :wink:
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ricktendo64
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Post by ricktendo64 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:18 pm

I like to add all new hotfixes I find to my pack, if there is a newer version dll out there I want it :P

Here is my list

http://kbupdate.info/ is a pretty good place to find new non critical updates

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Post by pegasus » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:27 pm

Thanks code65536 for explaining in layman's term the difference between QFE branch & GDR Branch!.

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5eraph
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Post by 5eraph » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:54 pm

I use the same site, rick. :)

brendown
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Post by brendown » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:32 pm

Thanks code65536 and 5eraph for your explanations so far.

As I understand it now, user_hidden has been using the GDR update releases that we see when Windows Update pops up in the system tray for example? So it all makes sense - his update packs would only include the GDR releases that Microsoft deems fit to be released to the general public via automatic updates.

I guess now I'm left wondering whether or not it's better to use the GDR or QFE updates. With QFE you get more but it's not as extensively tested by the Microsoft guys as the GDR updates are.

So say RyanVM were to update his pack now to match the general structure of user_hiddden, would Ryan's pack be bigger than user_hidden's?
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RyanVM
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Post by RyanVM » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:42 pm

I've been very happy with the work user_hidden has been doing. It's really taken the pressure off me. I've actually been contemplating lately whether or not I want to just throw in the towel and accept what seems to already be evident - that I'm simply losing the motivation to continue working on these packs. But the other part of me says that I don't want it to end with a whimper like that. Yay pride :)

I've actually begun to start assembling the backlog of missed updates from the last many months with hopes of sorting them all out and putting something together again. I hope to get at least one more round of packs out at least as some sort of last hurrah, but I probably won't be doing anything long-term with the packs.

However, I'd be blind to not recognize the fact that this website serves many purposes beyond just my pack anymore. For that reason, I have no desire to close this site down. If anything, I would just make the work of people like user_hidden more prominent than it currently is. We'll see what comes of it, thanks for the many well-wishes you all have been sending me.
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ccl0
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Post by ccl0 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:04 pm

i'm thinking once win7 gets released, the work on xp will start to wind down. people might start to shift their focus to that instead

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Post by etniesshadow » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:35 pm

win 7 is looking pretty good

brendown
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Post by brendown » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:44 am

I hope to get at least one more round of packs out at least as some sort of last hurrah - RyanVM
Hear hear! You can even call it "Version: Final" that way you won't have people subtly requesting the next update pack the way I've seen them do in various other topics.

The thing is you have the likes of user_hidden, redxii, OnePiece etc. to keep the fire burning as long as there is someone to approve and officially vet their update packs.
For some people, installing Windows is not as experimental as it seems to be for some of the guys on this forum. How it usually start's is they hear about this whole slipstreaming process and how great it would be to slipstream a service pack into an original Windows CD. It then goes further where people think, "hang on, since I'm updating my CD, I might as well try and get all the windows updates integrated as well". They then google "integrated windows update pack" for example and guess whose name pops up at the top of the page..... 8).
However, as you've stated Ryan, this forum also caters for more than just the average user. Hell, I've learn't more than I ever thought I could about the update process so far (well, I think I have anyway..)

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that I for one would just like to feel confident about the update pack I chose to integrate into my Windows CD so that I don't run into errors or problems down the line. Right now, I just don't feel like I know enough to do it myself but I'm very willing to learn.
I'll have a look through http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1290 but just glancing through it now makes me think I might be biting off more than I can chew right now!

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Post by user_hidden » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:07 pm

well guys lets make it clear i am NOT the new RyanVM 8)

i am just one of many that help and share our work here.

brendown
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Post by brendown » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:25 am

Okay, I think I get it now...
user_hidden has taken Ryan's pack and updated it with the GDR release pack that contains both the QFE and GDR branches. This is so existing QFE updates are maintained when downloading updates from WU or MU for example. However, user_hidden has not included any EXTRA QFE updates (?? please confirm this). So if Ryan and user_hidden were to update their packs now there would be loads of extra KBs in Ryan's pack.

I would now like to know why Ryan prefers to use the QFE update branch as opposed to the tested and more mainstream GDR updates?
Is it because there are extra updates so we're getting high priority updates and hotfixes OR is it becuase QFE updates slipstream better on a XP Disc without having to worry about things like $NtUninstallKBxxxxxx$ and $hf_mig$ folders in the future?

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Post by user_hidden » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:24 pm

comming soon so far:

version 1.06b4
added KB952011 replaced KB932716
added KB958756
added KB961187
added KB961503
added KB968585 replaced KB952206 & KB961501
added KB970254
added KB971165 replaced KB281981
added KB972483 replaced KB968537

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